The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

I've read a lot here that leaves me inclined to use cast bullets with a gas seal. My "reloading" activity is limited to pulling the bullet out of a surplus round with an inertia puller, then seating a non-magnetic bullet (required in SoCal) of equal or very close weight/diameter right back in the primed, powdered steel case. Pop one out, press the other in. Done with a Lee Classic loader, one round at a time. I got good results accuracy-wise from 2 of my rifles using a .310 bullet in the 150gr weight (they slugged .312).

Like someone else on this Forum, I have a Mosin carbine M38 that slugged .314 on one axis, and .315 on the other. I used a 00 buckshot, maybe it wobbled, I'll try a sinker with a bit more length to find out. I also had a whopping .316 on my Ex Dragoon. So I'm thinking cast bullets. However I just do not really see myself getting a whole bullet casting rig (c'mon, I'm using a classic loader that cost less than $50 ).

A search online found Montana Bullet Works. He has gas check bullets of several configurations and weights in a range of .310 - .318 that can be sized + lubed to order. The price is good, imho.

The thing is... here I have this surplus cartridge (one of 440 ), and would like to use it with a cast bullet - which will require removing some of the powder to bring the bullet down into safe speeds for the lead. Seems wasteful to dump the milsurp powder if it can be re-measured and used. Now, I'm not so stubborn that I wouldn't go buy some replacement powder, but it would be great to use the milsurp components with a cast bullet. Any suggestions?

Montana Bullet Works has my best reccomendation. Top notch fellow running it! I have used his .45 and .375 bullets for 45-70, 45-90 and .375 Winchester. I would start by measuring out the actual charge in the case, then go down say 20% to start. Should not be any problems.

Semper Fi, Rob

One thing that rears it's ugly head is what I read in my Lyman relaoding handbook. As stated "Grove and bore dimentions of these Russian Military's vary considerably. Most rifles have a grove diameter of .310 and for these we recommend jacketed bullets of .308" diameter or cast bullets of .310" diameter. Due to the limitations of the chamber size, larger bullets are not recommended even in rifles which have a grove diameter larger than .310. " (emphasis mine) Note: I won't even go into powder load weight becuase you have no idea what that powder is. my suggestion....Continue as you have and if you want to change your "Cartridge Combination" get a loading manual, a pound of powder, a simple measure and a balance beam scale. you can use the scoops that Lee sells and skip the measure and scale. As to the "surplus" military powder, I'd spread it on my lawn. The nitrogen is good for the grass.

If were me, and I was ordering from Montana BW, I would go with a bullet lighter than the pulled bullet, and if I used the old powder I would reduce it by 20% like Rob suggested, and I am thinking the lighter 7.62x39 bullet might be a option. Personally I like the new powder idea, about 18 gr of Alliant 2400 powder. The little Lee Loader is a dandy for what you are doing.

Thanks guys! I'm going to use a lighter than original cast bullet (gas check) in a shorter 7x39 size. I'll replace the surplus ammo (my lawn will like that ) and use the type/amount as suggested.

In general you want your cast bullet to be .001 to .002 over groove dia. many will size the bullet to fit the throat or as large as the chamber neck will take with the given brass/steel case to be used. Brass or steel cases can vary so finding a happy medium can sometimes be tricky. I have Prvi and Win. 54r brass which is S & B brass that works well with the .314 dia. bullets how ever if I use Bulgarian surplus brass which is thicker in the neck area,the loaded rd. chambers hard unless I turn them down a couple thousands.

Over sized lead bullet with an equal load generate less pressure and therefor can be squeezed down much easier as they enters the leads,for jacketed bullets I like to keep those around .001 to .002" under groove to groove dia. In my SKS and Mosin both which have a .300 bore and are .312" groove to groove dia. I size my gas check 170 gr. bullets to .314 they chamber fine in both rifles but anything larger give occasional chambering problems, .310" dia. jacketed bullets shoot the most accurately in the SKS while .311" dia. J bullets shoot the most accurately in the Mosin. .311's in the SKS and .310's in the Mosin shoot well but not as accurately,go figure.

As far as using the surplus ammo I've Mexican Matched lots of surplus FMJ ammo with SP bullet to make hunting ammo. Often times I have found that reducing the base powder charge by two grains and working the load back up gives better accuracy as well as reduces pressure as noted by the primers below.

Original surplus ammo


After equal or lesser weight .311 jackated bullet replacement and charge reduction.


If you choose to use the original surplus powder I would not go below 80% of the original charge weight with cast bullet loads and regardless of the gas check the bullet has to fit the bore,just having a gas check bullet want save you. Gas checks allow you to shoot a cast lead bullet faster than you normally could with a given load at a point where both pressure and velocity can overcome the alloys hardness,they also help seal the bore agents any rifling induced defects on the base of the bullet that those high pressure gases will take full advantage of which in turn causes gas blow by,burns off the lube and leads your bore.

Also if you plan on using the original surplus powder with a reduce load you may or may not get some vertical stringing due to the powder charge not being at it's optimal charge density/case fill capacity. You can take up the extra space with a small tuff of Dacron/Poly fill,here is a more in depth article of it's use http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=109280

I personally only use the surplus powder when Mexican Matching surplus FMJ ammo with SP bullets or when I'm reworking the FMJ loads to shoot more accurately generally about a 3% to 5% reduction is the range I work in with those loads. For cast bullet loads in the 54r regardless of if I'm using the berdan primed surplus case or commercial brass I use powders like Bullseye for plinker loads or Alliant 2400 or Alliant Red Dot for loads in the 1600 to 2000 fps. range with 170 gr. gas check bullets. Here are a couple links to some cast loads Ed Harris has worked up using 2400 and Red Dot.

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/TheLoad.html

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13425

A couple of other notes if you plan on using cast bullets,you will need to flare the case mouths so as not to scrap lead off your cast bullet and make seating/loading easier,it's the same principle as loading pistol rds. I use the Lee Universal expander die for all my cast rifle bullet. You also need to expand the case neck somewhat larger than you normally would with J bullets so that you don't downsize you cast bullet when seating it. This can be accomplished by using an appropriate size expander ball or rod depending on your die set or using the correct size Lyman M die.

Excellent info.....Thank you ..........Thannkkyew verry much

Res45, thank you for the excellent post. Seems every reloader should have these links saved for easy access.

First rule of reloading is do NOT load even one shell without using a prooven, printed recipe from a reloading manual. "Measure everything carefully or else the your last measurement will be 6' down" is an adage I got from an old fellow that reloads. If you can't find a loadout for your specific bullet - whether it's cast or jacketed - use the closest one and back off the initial charge by 20% and work up to 5% below the listed max. If you can't find the weight of bullet you're reloading, use the next LOWEST one. Better a round that goes too slow than a pressure that goes too high.