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Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:53 pm
by Tapper0158
Thanks for allowing me to join the forum. I have several Mosin Nagants, mostly Finnish, VKT, SAKO, etc., and am considering adding a "Sanitized" 1891/59 to the group. It has an Izhevsk stamp on the butt plate and is in excellent condition, however, I know little about its history. I see on another website that it ranks #7 on a rarity scale of 1 (Common) to 10 (Rare). I would really like to know more about its history and why it was sanitized. Many thanks.
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:57 pm
by racerguy00
That rarity scale hasn't been accurate for a while, it hasn't been updated in a decade at least. That being said, 91/59s aren't that common. I don't think the "sanitized" ones were done on purpose honestly. All I've seen were on 43 dates receivers, since some of those had faint markings and really rough tooling marks my guess was that when they were polished up during the conversion to carbine length the markings were simply buffed off while they smoothes everything out. Just my theory, could be wrong.
The lastest evidence points to Bulgaria as the source of the conversions, they have many stock stamps in common with Steyr m95 refurbs that came out of Bulgaria.
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:46 am
by Tapper0158
Thanks. Whoever did the work on this particular one did a pretty good job. It doesn't seem to have any excessive roughness on the visible surfaces and the stock is without cartouches or other stampings. In your opinion, would $300 be a fair price to pay for it? Thanks again.
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:30 am
by qz2026
Other than the Pre 1940 examples that go back to 1920, the sanitized 91/59's have always demanded a premium making them pretty good investments. That is, if you can get them cheap, i.e., under $400.
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:11 am
by Tapper0158
Thanks.
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:15 pm
by Junk Yard Dog
I think mine was around a hundred bucks with a little extra so it could be shipped in a hard case. Same thing, 1943 Izhevsk with cleaned up tool marks. These are not sanitized; they are cleaned up. In the darkest days of the war on the Eastern front, what the Soviets called the Great Patriotic War weapons were in desperate need by soldiers who went up against the Nazi's with nothing but their dicks in hand. All unnecessary steps in rifle production were halted in order to speed up production. This included cleaning up and polishing the metal, finishing stocks, bluing, all that mattered was the rifle was safe and could shoot reasonably well. The inside of the bore was finished, but the outside of the barrel was left covered in chatter from the tooling in the manufacturing process. After June 1941 to at least mid 1943 this went on. Post war the Soviets didn't do anything to hide this, I have many examples of rough looking 1942, and 1943 Mosins. It seems whoever cut down the 91/30 actions to make M38 type carbines out of them did care and tried to clean up the mess. They also did a much better job with the bluing, and the stock finish than the Soviets did. 91/30's tend to be surprisingly accurate, much of this is due to any wear to the barrel crown being eliminated when it was shortened, and the barrel itself is thicker than actual M38's use because it started off as a 91/30.
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:48 pm
by steelbuttplate
Junk Yard Dog wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:15 pm
I think mine was around a hundred bucks with a little extra so it could be shipped in a hard case. Same thing, 1943 Izhevsk with cleaned up tool marks. These are not sanitized; they are cleaned up. In the darkest days of the war on the Eastern front, what the Soviets called the Great Patriotic War weapons were in desperate need by soldiers who went up against the Nazi's with nothing but their dicks in hand. All unnecessary steps in rifle production were halted in order to speed up production. This included cleaning up and polishing the metal, finishing stocks, bluing, all that mattered was the rifle was safe and could shoot reasonably well. The inside of the bore was finished, but the outside of the barrel was left covered in chatter from the tooling in the manufacturing process. After June 1941 to at least mid 1943 this went on. Post war the Soviets didn't do anything to hide this, I have many examples of rough looking 1942, and 1943 Mosins. It seems whoever cut down the 91/30 actions to make M38 type carbines out of them did care and tried to clean up the mess. They also did a much better job with the bluing, and the stock finish than the Soviets did. 91/30's tend to be surprisingly accurate, much of this is due to any wear to the barrel crown being eliminated when it was shortened, and the barrel itself is thicker than actual M38's use because it started off as a 91/30.
I never had noticed that, one of mine (both '43 ) has been a rough receiver that was polished, you can still faintly see the rough milling right down the top of it.
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:20 pm
by Tapper0158
I have no way of knowing what the year of production was on this one. Other than the serial number, 1891/59, importer mark, and Izhevsk stamp on the butt plate there are no other markings on the visible surfaces. If it becomes part of my Mosin group. I will take the action out of the stock and see what, if any, additional markings there may be. Here are a couple images of the receiver & butt plate. Thanks.
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:30 pm
by millman
Regular 91/30s are bringing 400. That's worth more than that .
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:57 am
by SA1911a1
Here is a '43, with less polishing. The Soviet crest is still intact, though thin. The date is still there, and it is hard to tell with cocaine all over the piece, (to highlight the markings) but it is not finished quite as nicely as the one above, but still, very Mosin nice. This one has a very blonde stock that is serialized to match the barrel.
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:30 pm
by Junk Yard Dog
Chalk is easier to get and probably cheaper than cocaine Steve.
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:40 pm
by SA1911a1
Junk Yard Dog wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:30 pm
Chalk is easier to get and probably cheaper than cocaine Steve.
Never tried it, can you get a buzz snorting chalk?
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:03 pm
by Tapper0158
Thanks millman & 1911a1.
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:14 am
by SA1911a1
Tapper0158 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:03 pm
Thanks millman & 1911a1.
You are welcome. Hang around, kick you shoes off, ya'll come back now.
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:56 pm
by Junk Yard Dog
SA1911a1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:40 pm
Junk Yard Dog wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:30 pm
Chalk is easier to get and probably cheaper than cocaine Steve.
Never tried it, can you get a buzz snorting chalk?
No, but you can use it to write 1000 times on the blackboard "I will not dust my rifle with blow"
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:22 pm
by steelbuttplate
SA1911a1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:40 pm
Junk Yard Dog wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:30 pm
Chalk is easier to get and probably cheaper than cocaine Steve.
Never tried it, can you get a buzz snorting chalk?
Don't try it Steve, just say no.
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:39 pm
by SA1911a1
I take nine different meds every day, I don't need a chalk habit! After you hit 60, the doctors add one a year whether you need it or not. I am taking meds for illnesses that I didn't know I had, and some of them I have been taking for so long that I don't know what they were for. The Pharmacy business loves me, but they adore my wife. She gets two shots every month and the cost for the pair is $3,000.00! That is not to mention insulin. We just got a statement from the insurance company, her cost for the first half of the year was $42,000.00, and she is really pretty healthy!
Re: Sanitized 1891/59 Carbine
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2022 12:43 am
by bunkysdad
I’d like to know if this fine carbine was ever bought. I can’t imagine letting a 91/59 that nice and that price slip by. No way