The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

Merry christmas everybody !

That rifle popped this morning for sale.
The barrel looks in quite a nice condition, that alone being quite tempting but given the price asked, it better be authentic.
Unfortunately, no high rez pictures and only of the fully geared up rifle.










My observations so far :

• Stock looks convincingly authentic.
• I'm puzzled by the crossed-out scope number that still corresponds to what's mounted on the rifle (forced matched scope ?)
• From Tula I expected to see a СН or СП near the serial number but this one has not. However the crossed scope number looks genuine so...
• The tula star and year, along with proof marks are a bit feint compared to the very neatly stamped serial number. I this something to worry about ?
• I don't know what to think of the electropenciled rifle S/N but stamped scope N° on the mount.

Any opinion on this one ? Weird late refurb or fake ?

Cheers

Crossed out scope numbers means the scope was replaced. Old one probably got damaged.
It's a Tulsky refurbished. One of the last PU snipers sold off.
Yeah, no CH or CN. That is odd. It could be they were very faint to begin with, and the guy cleaning it during refurbishment got a little too much off.
Some one got real "frisky" cleaning up that barrel shank. That happens if they took too much "off the top". LOL
The scope and mount were from another rifle. The electric pencil is how they "matched" them back up during refurbishment.

I'm not a sniper guy, but is it not curious that the replacement scope would have the same number as the crossed out number on the rifle? I would think they would be different, with a electro penned correction on one or the other.

looks like a good used car rebuilt with some spare parts......but, if you can zero and hit something with it, enjoy the hell out of it.......

Darryl wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:07 pmYeah, no CH or CN. That is odd. It could be they were very faint to begin with, and the guy cleaning it during refurbishment got a little too much off.
Some one got real "frisky" cleaning up that barrel shank. That happens if they took too much "off the top". LOL

A bit unfortunate for a Tula since almost everybody around here swears by the CH marking to differentiate from the sniperized infantry rifles, regardless of any other clue you may find.

millman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:24 pmI'm not a sniper guy, but is it not curious that the replacement scope would have the same number as the crossed out number on the rifle? I would think they would be different, with a electro penned correction on one or the other.

Darryl wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:07 pmThe scope and mount were from another rifle. The electric pencil is how they "matched" them back up during refurbishment.

As millman said, I expected to see some hints that the scope was mounted on another rifle before.
But nothing I can see on what's available, and the scope number 25513, is also what I can read under the crossing of the "old" scope number. Did the armourer got lucky and found a later production scope with same number ?

I'm quite ill educated as far as scope goes, on the scope body there is marked N°5-25513, does the first "5" indicates a batch number ?

tomaustin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:42 pm looks like a good used car rebuilt with some spare parts......but, if you can zero and hit something with it, enjoy the hell out of it.......

Seller is asking the equivalent of $1650 for it. So it better shoot well indeed !

Thank you for your answers so far !

Darryl wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:07 pm Yeah, no CH or CN. That is odd. It could be they were very faint to begin with, and the guy cleaning it during refurbishment got a little too much off.
Some one got real "frisky" cleaning up that barrel shank. That happens if they took too much "off the top". LOL

Looking harder at these two pictures, There are faint markings that could well be the remnants of the C and H, located above the tula star, one on each side of the barrel.

I've never seen the original scope number stamped on the side of a Tula sniper barrel. All I can think of is this one one that was just a normal Tula rifle or at least barrel that was sent to Izhevsk to complete it's manufacture. Wasn't Tula at that point concentrating on the SVT's? What is stamped on the underside of the tang? Could there be a double Izhevsk/Tula stamping on it or just an Izhevsk stamp? The three dots/peens near the refurb stamp is interesting too. For sure, this is an uncommon rifle.

Definitely a faint CH stamp on there.

It's a CH Tula. I'm pretty sure.

Looks like it was really Ground or sanded on the top.
Then re-blued. That would have been done during the refurbishment process.

On the scope numbers, if you look really close, you can see the "original" scope number on the left side of the barrel shank (just above the wood line).
Those number are faint because of the sanding they did and re-bluing. Those numbers are very faint.

Then it looks like another scope was put on. Those number were stamped after the blueing process because, you can see shiny steel at the bottom of the numbers. See Second Numbers below. The serial number was then elecrto penciled onto the scope mount.

Bottom line is, I'd bet that is the second scope mounted on that rifle.

BUT, bottom line is, that is an authentic Tulsky imported M91/30 sniper rifle.

Darryl

Forget the blue third scope comment, I got carried away! LOL

qz2026 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:40 am I've never seen the original scope number stamped on the side of a Tula sniper barrel. All I can think of is this one one that was just a normal Tula rifle or at least barrel that was sent to Izhevsk to complete it's manufacture. Wasn't Tula at that point concentrating on the SVT's? What is stamped on the underside of the tang? Could there be a double Izhevsk/Tula stamping on it or just an Izhevsk stamp? The three dots/peens near the refurb stamp is interesting too. For sure, this is an uncommon rifle.

Yep, on Tulsky Sniper rifle imports, they stamped the scope numbers on the sides of the Tula's also.

Tulsky imports were the last one's out of Russia.

Darryl

$1650 seem a little high to me. I might sell my RGUNs sniper for that! LOL

Darryl

Thanks for all the info and expertise !

I've been monitoring the market prices during all the year, and unfortunately for my purse, $1650 is pretty moderate for the market here.

Fake sniperized infantry rifles usually starts at $1100/1200, typical price being around $1400, same price is asked for seemingly authentic PU's but rechambered in 30/284. (There's even a sniperized M44 for $1700 )

There are two other Tulsky on sale at the moment, an Izhevsk with toasted rifling for $1800 (equivalent) and a Tula that seems in overall good shape but the guy is asking $2100 (equivalent) for it. There is another one that looks like a genuine Izhevsk for around $1500 but barrel isn't in super shape and even if the scope looks soviet made, the mount is a modern repro.

So that Tula is definitely one good, if not the best, deal I've seen so far.

it is disappointing to find that you also have "gun craftsmen" in your country who can shape a weapon into what ever vintage and description the buying public wants to believe it to be.....sounds like a pick-a-part-and-stick-them-together operation.....

Yup, disappointing as you said.

One side of the problem being the amount of ill educated buyers (sometimes even the sellers themselves) who will purchase fakes at ridiculous prices. Unfortunately there is no knowledgeable reference website about russian firearms written in french and you know how talented (and motivated) french people are at learning foreign languages... So they usually don't bother to cross-check what they've been told and take the "believe me it's authentic because I say so" for gospel.