The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

Dear Community,

after searching the internet I found this very informative homepage and after reading through many posts I am quite certain I am holding a fake 91/30 in my hands. What I just cannot figure out is how bad it is and what it actually is. It would be also great to know if it would be worth keeping it, or rather return it. There are plenty of proof markings which I couldn´t decipher and maybe the experts in this forum are able to help. I hope this is the correct one to post it in.

Please note I am based in Czech and some of the proof marks are probably European.


The rifle, a 91/30

Looks overall nice. It came out of a collection and does not seem like it was shot often. I have been told this is a real sniper, but one that has never seen the war and that came out of storage.


Markings on the barrel shank

I figured the rifle is from Iszhevsk and it has the short 4 digit refurbished serial numbers. They are matching all over the entire rifle. I did not find any scope number on the barrel shank or receiver (when you see the pictures from the scope it is probably obvious why not). There are many proof marks and I wonder what the rifle went through over the years. On the third picture the writing 7.62 Russ and the small marking to the right (an eagle) might be German proof marks. The eagle should be post 1980 if I did find the correct information.
The scope

After what I read I realized everything about the scope is wrong. The screws are flat, there is the extra 1/8 inch ring, the glasses are toned and the inside surface if the scope mount seems to be too smooth as well. So maybe the serial number was stamped later as well? Would you know if this was a converted gun to a fake or copy sniper rifle and what year these changes were made. The scope has a serial number but i cannot figure it out if it is laser engraved and how old it could be. I read it might be Chinese but which year I could not find.

What is interesting, the crosshair is completely off center. The windage is on zero and the elevation on 1 and it is off to the top left. Looks like the previous owner never used. Would you know why this is so off (maybe cause it is a fake?) and if it can be fixed (if you recommend to keep the rifle)

The front sight

Is off to the left which read is a sign of a regular rifle due to the bayonet.
The bolt

The surface around the handle does not look smooth but like it was worked on. I will have to figure out how to upload more pictures and continue in a second post.

My apologies as I did not know how to include additional pictures.

The bolt

Seems like some work has been done to it as the surface is not smooth and
Various other markings

I have taken pictures from the butt stock, the butt plate and the rings on the hand guard. Please see below the details. I have also take a picture of the cut out for the scope mount, which looks over painted or lacquered on the edges.


What would you experts say on this rifle a keeper or return it? I am very much interested in your opinion as well as further information and specificationson this piece. I have to say I am disappointed about not holding a real one in my hands and fore sure should have done more research beforehand but I have the chance to return it.

Thank you for reading so far and I hope i was in line with the forum rules with my first post.

Thank you all in advance.
Stan

Reproduction.

If you are in Czech, then for us here (well me anyway) to tell you it is not worth having would be wrong.
I don't know your situation there, and perhaps this is as close as you can get?

Here I would recommend returning it. It's a reproduction (Fake) and in the USA it is only worth the valuable of it's usable parts.
The mounts and scope are reproduction and worth very little to me.
And a perfectly good Mosin Nagant Standard M91/30 Infantry rifle was destroyed to make it.

But here is the thing, I don't know what your values are in your country. So it would be wrong of me to tell you to return it.
That is a decision you have to make there ..... and for you.

Darryl

Thank you very much for your swift reply Darryl.

Mosins of all sorts in great condition became rare since a few years when the embargo and sanctions again Russia begun. Since than there is no availability from Russian stocks, despite we are really close to them. Also prices have gone up and for snipers and you are looking at 800-1200 US dollars (did convert it with the current rate). Some dealers only get 1 or 2 a year on the shelf when collections are being sold or if the wholesaler has some from other neighboring countries.

I agree with you, to me this rifle has not historical value and to pay that money for a reproduction is lost money for me. It is neither a regular M91/30 anymore and for sure no sniper and I would not be able to settle with a Chinese scope. I rather wait for an original to show up which I can enjoy instead of knowing I have a reproduction that is "close" to it every time I look at it.

Out of curiosity, when were these reproductions made. I found there were from the 60s-70 but not sure how of if that can found out. Also would you recognize any other proof marks on the rifle. Would be just interesting to know after all the investigation

Thank you again for all the insights. a bit disappointed but lessons learned and in future I will pay more attention and read more in this forum.

Have a great Sunday

Stan

Agree 100% with Dolks assessment fake as my grandpa's teeth.