ATF
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:34 am
I have received over the last three months three phone calls and three emails from the ATF to make sure my firearms are secure and to report any that get stolen or lost. Anyone else?
Military Preservation & Civilian Firearms Forums for Collectors
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https://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.boydhouse.com/viewtopic.php?t=32803
Yes
This is why I never got a C&R. People used to tell me I should do it but I didn't feel like dealing with exactly what this post is about and what you mentioned Jim. I'm not doing anything illegal and I don't sell any of the firearms I buy, ever, but I'm not a paperwork guy and would most likely miss something. I also got a first hand education about ATF "Gray Areas" when I went to my FFL to pick up 8 rifles I had bought. His agent asked to speak to me outside. The gist of it was him checking to see why I was buying all these rifles and was I doing straw purchases. I told him I was a collector but I wasn't an 03 holder so I didn't have to worry with my collection being scrutinized. I also told him I know I can sell whatever I want legally but have never sold any of them, not one. We touched on the subject of private sales and selling to a prohibited person. I asked how would I know if someone was prohibited and how the ATF would determine I sold to someone who was knowingly. He said it's judged on a case by case basis, but it's a "Gray Area". His words exactly. So they can make it as they go. To the point of "How would I know if someone is prohibited" he jokingly said if they're driving a lowered car with blinged out wheels and and the stereo rattling the trunk I should maybe think twice about that one.Junk Yard Dog wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:19 pm 'bout now you are probably getting a hint of why I dropped the FFL over a decade ago. I decided I didn't want uncle to have any excuse to crawl up my ass about anything. FFL is very convenient when you are actively collecting new items into your collection and want to do it quickly, but it does kinda give BATFE ( ATF is Automatic Transmission Fluid ) a blank check to inspect you whenever they want, and for whatever reason they can think of, and you must produce the book on demand and it better be absolutely perfect. Oh yea, how many sales out of that book is too many sales is a " Gray Area" and up to the individual inspecting agent. No shit, I asked a direct question about this to an agent and got gray area as an answer, how comforting. Just like with the 001 FFL's, if they think you might be selling to the public for profit they can inspect your collection to match each one to the book. Maybe you forgot to enter something, or they think you did and you go to jail. That much government interference won't fly with me. Now my entire collection is mine and I am free to sell every one if I want without noting it down in some damn book, or being interrogated about it later.
Down here, some dealers have a policy of not doing multiple transfers of certain types of firearms at the same time. Being in Arizona, they get extra scrutiny with good reason.WeldonHunter wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:46 amThis is why I never got a C&R. People used to tell me I should do it but I didn't feel like dealing with exactly what this post is about and what you mentioned Jim. I'm not doing anything illegal and I don't sell any of the firearms I buy, ever, but I'm not a paperwork guy and would most likely miss something. I also got a first hand education about ATF "Gray Areas" when I went to my FFL to pick up 8 rifles I had bought. His agent asked to speak to me outside. The gist of it was him checking to see why I was buying all these rifles and was I doing straw purchases. I told him I was a collector but I wasn't an 03 holder so I didn't have to worry with my collection being scrutinized. I also told him I know I can sell whatever I want legally but have never sold any of them, not one. We touched on the subject of private sales and selling to a prohibited person. I asked how would I know if someone was prohibited and how the ATF would determine I sold to someone who was knowingly. He said it's judged on a case by case basis, but it's a "Gray Area". His words exactly. So they can make it as they go. To the point of "How would I know if someone is prohibited" he jokingly said if they're driving a lowered car with blinged out wheels and and the stereo rattling the trunk I should maybe think twice about that one.Junk Yard Dog wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:19 pm 'bout now you are probably getting a hint of why I dropped the FFL over a decade ago. I decided I didn't want uncle to have any excuse to crawl up my ass about anything. FFL is very convenient when you are actively collecting new items into your collection and want to do it quickly, but it does kinda give BATFE ( ATF is Automatic Transmission Fluid ) a blank check to inspect you whenever they want, and for whatever reason they can think of, and you must produce the book on demand and it better be absolutely perfect. Oh yea, how many sales out of that book is too many sales is a " Gray Area" and up to the individual inspecting agent. No shit, I asked a direct question about this to an agent and got gray area as an answer, how comforting. Just like with the 001 FFL's, if they think you might be selling to the public for profit they can inspect your collection to match each one to the book. Maybe you forgot to enter something, or they think you did and you go to jail. That much government interference won't fly with me. Now my entire collection is mine and I am free to sell every one if I want without noting it down in some damn book, or being interrogated about it later.
I'm in Louisiana and the rifles I bought were a bunch of M91/30s, a Mauser or two and I think maybe an SKS but I can't remember exactly. The agent turned out to be a decent guy and we finished the conversation talking about mil-surp rifles, specifically Garands which he's a collector of. I even invited him to come shoot with us sometime. I'm lucky my FFL is now a friend for the most part. He was only charging me $20 no matter what I needed transferred and the last time his wife didn't even charge me. It helps I take them boxes full of cartons of eggs. I never meant it to be trade thing, I have lots of extra eggs we just give away to friends and neighbors and I did the same with them because they always treated me great.awalker1829 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:58 pmDown here, some dealers have a policy of not doing multiple transfers of certain types of firearms at the same time. Being in Arizona, they get extra scrutiny with good reason.WeldonHunter wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:46 amThis is why I never got a C&R. People used to tell me I should do it but I didn't feel like dealing with exactly what this post is about and what you mentioned Jim. I'm not doing anything illegal and I don't sell any of the firearms I buy, ever, but I'm not a paperwork guy and would most likely miss something. I also got a first hand education about ATF "Gray Areas" when I went to my FFL to pick up 8 rifles I had bought. His agent asked to speak to me outside. The gist of it was him checking to see why I was buying all these rifles and was I doing straw purchases. I told him I was a collector but I wasn't an 03 holder so I didn't have to worry with my collection being scrutinized. I also told him I know I can sell whatever I want legally but have never sold any of them, not one. We touched on the subject of private sales and selling to a prohibited person. I asked how would I know if someone was prohibited and how the ATF would determine I sold to someone who was knowingly. He said it's judged on a case by case basis, but it's a "Gray Area". His words exactly. So they can make it as they go. To the point of "How would I know if someone is prohibited" he jokingly said if they're driving a lowered car with blinged out wheels and and the stereo rattling the trunk I should maybe think twice about that one.Junk Yard Dog wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:19 pm 'bout now you are probably getting a hint of why I dropped the FFL over a decade ago. I decided I didn't want uncle to have any excuse to crawl up my ass about anything. FFL is very convenient when you are actively collecting new items into your collection and want to do it quickly, but it does kinda give BATFE ( ATF is Automatic Transmission Fluid ) a blank check to inspect you whenever they want, and for whatever reason they can think of, and you must produce the book on demand and it better be absolutely perfect. Oh yea, how many sales out of that book is too many sales is a " Gray Area" and up to the individual inspecting agent. No shit, I asked a direct question about this to an agent and got gray area as an answer, how comforting. Just like with the 001 FFL's, if they think you might be selling to the public for profit they can inspect your collection to match each one to the book. Maybe you forgot to enter something, or they think you did and you go to jail. That much government interference won't fly with me. Now my entire collection is mine and I am free to sell every one if I want without noting it down in some damn book, or being interrogated about it later.
Adopt ancient Egyptian religion and then you can take it all with you.steelbuttplate wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:50 pm The main reason I'm keeping mine now is most 01's won't accept a gun from a non FFL. I can't keep 'em all and can't take 'em with me.
True. However you might need to buy an extra plot if you're going into a cemetery.Junk Yard Dog wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:43 amAdopt ancient Egyptian religion and then you can take it all with you.steelbuttplate wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:50 pm The main reason I'm keeping mine now is most 01's won't accept a gun from a non FFL. I can't keep 'em all and can't take 'em with me.