The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

lets get into the habit of calling the SKS what it is

Its a SKS Carbine with whatever assigned model number the country of origin assigned it

They are not Norinco, Poly Tech, or some other name given by people that are not really collectors . They are also Carbines and not Rifles.

Norinco is China North Industries which is the main control in China for Military procurement and sales of Surplus over 150 possible factory codes exist on the Chinese sks type 56 (many are from the same shops a good way to look like you have allot of production)

Poly Tech is an Export Company a subsidiary of the People Liberation Army Neither actually makes anything they control whats already made.

==Russia= =
Model of 1945
Tula 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 dated top covers 56 has star after serial number
Izhevsk 53,54

==China==
Type 56 56 till 80s not dated

==Romania==
M56 1957 58 59 60 and some were stamped with wrong dates a collector has one dated 1980

==East Germany==
Karabiner S made by VEB Fahrzeug und geratewerk
Simpson Suhl,
Gerbruder Merkel,
Suhl
Fortuna Werke Suhl
VEB Earnst Thalmann Suhl

==North Korea==
type 63

==North Vietnam==
SKS 6

==Yugoslavia==
M59 M59/66 M59/66 a1 and several experimental' s made at Zavodi Crvena in Kragujevic Yugoslavia

==Albanian==
no model number that I know of its known as the July 10th rifle. 1967-71 then 76-79 are the years of Manufacture (1979 is rare find)
made by Umgramsh Factory


while the above information is known by most collectors if you contribute to other boards maybe you can show you are a professional by using the right description I just posted this stuff because we need some more stuff here hope you learned something from this

Makes sense but as it makes sense, it won't be done. I mean we should not eat to excess but we do. We shouln't pick our noses but we do. , we shouldn't............you get the idea

Sounds good. I admit, I have always referred to the SKS as a rifle. I will use the term carbine from now on

It's like the Ruger 10-22 carbine. It is stamped carbine right on the receiver. They do make a 22" barelled rifle for sale at Bass Pro. Some people call magazines clips and it drives many people crazy. I have caught myself calling my Mosin M44 a great shooting rifle, which it is not. But it is a great shooting carbine. I only have one SKS, a Russian model 1945 carbine. Tula 51, I like it.

Thanks Howie.

A common reference to the North Vietnamese is the Type-1. Would this be a name that has been tagged by US collectors or the military?

martin08 wrote:Thanks Howie.

A common reference to the North Vietnamese is the Type-1. Would this be a name that has been tagged by US collectors or the military?

That is a good question !! as I was putting this together and looking through my various books and records for the models the North Vietnamese is still a bit of a Mystery. I would not know of a single source of info as to the model. I think the ! refers to the factory code I myself still believe they were made in China The CIA says North Korea

dolk wrote:Hope you don't mind but, I made this into a sticky for now. It will remain at the top of the forum posts.

I understand that many won't do this, but the use of the proper models should be encouraged. Being mandatory is a different matter.

I'll wait to see other comments before leaving it permanent. But for now I'm going to stick it to the top so everyone has a chance to have some input.

If you don't mind howiebearse I'd like to make the list a little easier to read, maybe like this



Russia -- Model of 1945 SKS Tula 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 dated top covers 56 has star after serial number

China -- Type 56 56 till 80s not dated

Romania -- M56 1957 58 59 60 and some were stamped with wrong dates a collector has one dated 1980

East Germany -- Karabiner S made by VEB Fahrzeug und geratewerk Simpson Suhl, Gerbruder Merkel, Suhl
Fortuna Werke Suhl and VEB Earnst Thalmann Suhl

North Korea -- type 63

North Vietnam -- SKS 6

Yugoslavia -- M59 M59/66 M59/66 a1 and several experimental' s made at Zavodi Crvena in Kragujevic Yugoslavia

Albanian -- has no model number that I know of its known as the July 10th rifle. 1967-71 then 76-79 are the years of Manufacture (1979 is rare find)
made by Umgramsh Factory




Dolk

Thanks Dolk Its sure fine with me and glad its going to be saved some good info for all there .

Thank You Howie!

What Howie says is absolutely appropriate with an SKS. Look at the detail of description used here in reference to Mosins and Mausers alone.
No one calls them a CAI Mauser, Samco Mauser that I am aware of. It seems to me there are many variations of Mosins and Mausers out there
and they are described in detail and accurate description.

The SKS is no different and actually has less variations as it was not used for near the years of a Mauser or a Mosin.
So I have to disagree with ironnewt. We learn from many of you! I did and learned about many types and classifications of Mausers.
As a result I have started adding Swedish Mausers to my collection.

Proper identification, models, and terminology cannot be mandated. But, should be for certain encouraged. Common courtesy.

I agree with you..somewhat. A type 56 has norinco stamped right on it for a lot of SKS type 56's I think we are a victim of the selling of these "sporters" as they marketed them as norinco SKS and not the Type 56. I will try to do better though. It is easy for the Yugo M59 though as they were sold as that modela nd has 3 or so variations. I believe i would do it as far as the russian and yugos as they are military designated, but are all the Type 56s military surplus or are there commercial copies?

On a Chinese, saying Norinco is the same as calling a Mauser a CAI or a Samco. Basically all Type 56 style Chinese are ex-military, military surplus as unused,
or assembled from Military parts. The only Arsenals in China for these were and are owned by the Peoples Liberation Army. Norinco is the PLA marketing arm.
They sell rifles, missiles, electronic warfare equipment, and artillery around the world now.

Then a few US Distributors wanted some variants and they were shipped here. Various model names like Paratrooper Style. Which were never a Military Version.
Plus a few others. Howie and Moose can better describe these. Virtually all Type 56 Chinese are Military Surplus. They built millions of them for their own use and for export all over the globe. I know of no commercial factory that made these rifles. Lots of people look down on them only because they are Chinese I think.
But, some of the most accurate SKS ever built.

Thanks for the clarification. I own a chinese type 56 and i look down the barrel at the sight ALOT. So i guess i look down on it. But i love love it even though it was bastardized. IT shoots so nice and i love how they take down for cleaning...never will i not have at least one SKS Type or M something.

Few know or realize that the Chinese actually improved over the original design of the SKS. One of the reasons they are so accurate.
Of my 8 shooters, only my two Yugo M59's can compete with the Chinese on accuracy. The disregard for the Chinese Type 56 SKS is why we see
many thousands a year of excellent Military rifles fall to Bubba. Same now with the Yugo M59/66A1. Now even the Bubba boys are complaining
about rising prices. They are using these to make a cheaper AR look alike with the Tapco T6 stocks. And their Bull Pups.
Example: Remember when the Mausers of all types were plentiful? Then they called it Sporterizing as I recall. Now where are they?

By the way fellows I had no intention of any mandates to this description. I just thought if I posted the correct names we might get used to using them when describing the various collectors pieces. You are right guys the Chinese did more to the SKS than anyone did. The receivers alone are found milled, stamped, and cast. The Factory 296 or triangle 26 as we know it and late 0296 made some of the nicest looking guns in the 80s with great machine work and blueing The last ones in 24 million range were as nice as you can find. The Yugoslavian models have great workmanship and finish as well. They are fine guns to say the least

howiebearse wrote:By the way fellows I had no intention of any mandates to this description. I just thought if I posted the correct names we might get used to using them when describing the various collectors pieces. You are right guys the Chinese did more to the SKS than anyone did. The receivers alone are found milled, stamped, and cast. The Factory 296 or triangle 26 as we know it and late 0296 made some of the nicest looking guns in the 80s with great machine work and blueing The last ones in 24 million range were as nice as you can find. The Yugoslavian models have great workmanship and finish as well. They are fine guns to say the least

No need to apologize... Great information & I'm glad it's posted. Thank You.

What do we call an Albanian 7.62x39 caliber carbine? Would Albanian SKS variant be appropriate?

etprescottazusa91 wrote:What do we call an Albanian 7.62x39 caliber carbine? Would Albanian SKS variant be appropriate?

I've also heard it referred to as the "Independence Carbine" which I think would be incorrect, because technically, it's Nov. 28 in Albania. The "July 10 Rifle" or carbine, never made since either, the only reference I could find in Albania's history to "July 10" is this, "On 10 July 1943, the Albanian partisan groups were organized in regular units of companies, battalions and brigades and named the Albanian National Liberation Army." More info found here--> http://thelevantandthebalkanswwii.devhu ... ver-hoxha/


I wonder how or what the Albanian Ministry of Defense refers to the weapon as? Or, what Enver Hoxha called it. Being Albania got a great deal of help and support from China for all those years, could it possibly be an Albanian Type 56?


I would vote for Albanian SKS as the proper term.

OLD OUTLAW wrote:On a Chinese, saying Norinco is the same as calling a Mauser a CAI or a Samco. Basically all Type 56 style Chinese are ex-military, military surplus as unused,
or assembled from Military parts. The only Arsenals in China for these were and are owned by the Peoples Liberation Army. Norinco is the PLA marketing arm.
They sell rifles, missiles, electronic warfare equipment, and artillery around the world now.

Then a few US Distributors wanted some variants and they were shipped here. Various model names like Paratrooper Style. Which were never a Military Version.
Plus a few others. Howie and Moose can better describe these. Virtually all Type 56 Chinese are Military Surplus. They built millions of them for their own use and for export all over the globe. I know of no commercial factory that made these rifles. Lots of people look down on them only because they are Chinese I think.
But, some of the most accurate SKS ever built.

yeah i know what you mean , i wish i still had my type 56 that i paid a total $ 79 dollars for and i got 500 rounds of norinco ammo with it in 1991, i think the ammo cost more than the gun , all my friends were impressed with its minuet of beer can accuracy at 100 yards , so they all went and got them one too, that was my introduction to milsurps , it didn't shoot WIN softpoints worth a hoot , but you could hit a rabbit running with the norinco hard ball ammo .

Greasemonkey wrote:

etprescottazusa91 wrote:What do we call an Albanian 7.62x39 caliber carbine? Would Albanian SKS variant be appropriate?

I've also heard it referred to as the "Independence Carbine" which I think would be incorrect, because technically, it's Nov. 28 in Albania. The "July 10 Rifle" or carbine, never made since either, the only reference I could find in Albania's history to "July 10" is this, "On 10 July 1943, the Albanian partisan groups were organized in regular units of companies, battalions and brigades and named the Albanian National Liberation Army." More info found here--> http://thelevantandthebalkanswwii.devhu ... ver-hoxha/


I wonder how or what the Albanian Ministry of Defense refers to the weapon as? Or, what Enver Hoxha called it. Being Albania got a great deal of help and support from China for all those years, could it possibly be an Albanian Type 56?


I would vote for Albanian SKS as the proper term.

I would also like to know . The only thing I have found is it was designed for the Police but cannot really verify that. Much like all communist weapons, they feel its no ones business to know anything about them. We all must draw conclusions from examining them and getting what info we can. It has Chinese features and early Russian features. and their own design features its a real Mutt.

I could go with the Type-1 NVA SKS having been produced in China, Howie. It has identical features to the 1957-1965 Type 56. However, if built in North Korea, they used different stock ferrules, bayonet lugs, gas blocks, rear sight bases , stocks, and trigger groups for their own. The Type-63 NK is its own animal, for sure. The CIA obviously didn't look too closely at the design.

Thank you for the proper nomenclature Howie, I will try to remember to use it, however lapses should be expected, On a good day I remember my name, and that I should put on trousers before leaving the house, and were I put the keys, my glasses.....