The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

I'm in the process of selling my (what I believe) regular 91/30 infantry rifle and the buyer thinks this rifle was once a sniper. I have told him I do not believe it is a sniper but he thinks the scenario is this....This rifle started it's life as an infantry rifle in 1939. At some point the russian army decided it needed more snipers so they took rifles from their arsenal and tested them. He thinks this rifle was good enough and was turned into a sniper. He says it has a sniper marking on it. I know it does not have the typical C h markings. Am I missing something? Is there a mark I am missing? Could this have been a PE? I want to make sure before I sell it for both me and him.

Sorry..having trouble with pics

Does it have filled in holes?

try again

one more set

I think the circle with the C in the middle in the 4th picture is what he’s seeing.

I don't see any welded holes.

In 1942 the Russians started using the PU sniper which is a M91/30 style rifle. So your 1939 M91/30 would have to be a PE or PEM sniper rifle.


If it were a PEM rifle, the holes would be plugged and you could see the plugs in the inside of the receiver where the bolt slides in and out on the left side where the mount would have been.

I don't have a photo of that, but below is a photo of a PU (next generation) ex-sniper welded up. On the out side it is very very hard to tell. It was welded up and ground off and the rifle re-blued. But on the inside, you can see where they drove in screws and welded the outside, the screws show on the inside ......like the below photo.




Read here for some more info on ex-snipers.
app.php/page/64

Darryl

Izhevsk did produce any sniper rifles until 1942 1st starting with the PEM for about 6 months as a stop gap between the end of the SVT40 sniper program and the start up of the PU sniper program. Then in late 1942 they switched over to production of the PU until the end of 1944.

It was found at Area 51 ?

Miller Tyme wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:29 am Izhevsk did produce any sniper rifles until 1942 1st starting with the PEM for about 6 months as a stop gap between the end of the SVT40 sniper program and the start up of the PU sniper program. Then in late 1942 they switched over to production of the PU until the end of 1944.

I'm not as learned in PEM and PE as I am in PU.
So, his rifle can't be and ex-sniper if it was a 1939 from Izhevsk? Or It would have to be a PE, and there are no indications of a PE mount in his photos that I can see. And if none in the inside of the receiver, then it was not an ex-sniper? Correct?

Darryl

dolk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:24 pm

Miller Tyme wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:29 am Izhevsk did produce any sniper rifles until 1942 1st starting with the PEM for about 6 months as a stop gap between the end of the SVT40 sniper program and the start up of the PU sniper program. Then in late 1942 they switched over to production of the PU until the end of 1944.

I'm not as learned in PEM and PE as I am in PU.
So, his rifle can't be and ex-sniper if it was a 1939 from Izhevsk? Or It would have to be a PE, and there are no indications of a PE mount in his photos that I can see. And if none in the inside of the receiver, then it was not an ex-sniper? Correct?

Darryl

Correct Darryl, the fact the rifle is an Izhevsk and a pre 1942 eliminates the possibility it was ever produced as a sniper rifle. Tula produced all sniper rifles up to 1942. 1939 Tula snipers would be of the side mount PEM style, but there is a 39 top mount that was posted on GB some time back that stirred up some spirted debate.

Thanks for the info guys. I didn't think it was a sniper but the guy I'm selling it to thought it was based on the "C" in the middle of the circle on the right side of the receiver just above the wood line (most noticeable in the 4th picture). I didn't include any other pictures because I just wanted to focus on the marking. For full disclosure this rifle has been converted to a P/U and has an after market scope and bracket on it now so there are no filled in holes...just holes for the new mount. My thought was that I know there were sniper rifles from before 1942 and I just didn't want everyone to get too hung up on the fact that this rifle has a P/U scope on it and automatically say that it is an obvious sniper clone due to the aftermarket scope. I wanted to make sure that I didn't have something special that I didn't recognize before I sold it as a regular 91/30.

Anything that might have been special about it was voided when it was made into a fake sniper.

When did Tula start making sniper rifles? I’m looking to buy a 1943 original, all matching numbers.

I’m in the process of buying a 43 Tula. Matching numbers the whole bit. I have some questions though.