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Help IDing Calvary Carbine
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:10 pm
by ffuries
Friend on a non-weapons forum acquired this rifle. He's currently trying to ID it, and will try to clean it up some.
It appears to be a Cavalry Carbine due to the saddle ring and bar, but I can not find an example of it. I'm beginning to wonder if it might be a Bannermans job, but I don't know.
One thought mentioned is the rifle might be marked König Württ Fabrik, just can't find an example like this by them.
So any help is greatly appreciate.
Re: Help IDing Calvary Carbine
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:13 pm
by Junk Yard Dog
Your not searching the correct countries, that's a Prussian military carbine, mid 19th century, I don't remember the name or model if it had such. Pre unification of the German states, very distinctive lock shape and saddle ring setup. I think this was in one of my Bannerman catalogs, I don't know were I put the catalogs at the moment, but they probably called it Prussian also but omitted model, if it was a specific model. Very nice find, these were in the white, I would use evaporust to clean that. I have had good results cleaning tools and phonograph parts that are also in the white. Removes only the rust, scrub with soft brush to a gray patina.
Re: Help IDing Calvary Carbine
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:38 pm
by ffuries
I tried using Prussian in my searches, but as you stated it has a very unique saddle ring setup that I haven't been able to match at all.
As for being in the white, cool deal there, I thought it had been chromed or something. I'll let him know about your response and information. Thanks Jim.
Re: Help IDing Calvary Carbine
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:46 am
by entropy
It predates the M1857 Zundnadel Carbine, or possibly concurrent with it, as I found an 1865 Suhl-made pecussion carbine also. It says Oberndorf on top of the barrel I found a pic that may be of the same type, but no further description:
Prussiancarbine.jpg
The König Württ Fabrik may mean Kingdom of (Baden)- Wurttemburg Armories (Fabrik, factory) Even googling in German, I find little. Oberndorf am Nekar is in Baden-Württemberg, so logically, (And us Germans are nothing if not logical, ja?) it was made in Oberndorf, possibly in 1850, although that date could be a commemoration of Prussian Unification. (It would take the Prussians 21 more years to corral the rest of the independent German States) and would not have been in front-line service long, with the ZundNadel carbine adopted in 1857.
Re: Help IDing Calvary Carbine
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:02 am
by ffuries
entropy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:46 am
It predates the M1857 Zundnadel Carbine, or possibly concurrent with it, as I found an 1865 Suhl-made pecussion carbine also. It says Oberndorf on top of the barrel I found a pic that may be of the same type, but no further description:
Prussiancarbine.jpg
The König Württ Fabrik may mean Kingdom of (Baden)- Wurttemburg Armories (Fabrik, factory) Even googling in German, I find little. Oberndorf am Nekar is in Baden-Württemberg, so logically, (And us Germans are nothing if not logical, ja?) it was made in Oberndorf, possibly in 1850, although that date could be a commemoration of Prussian Unification. (It would take the Prussians 21 more years to corral the rest of the independent German States) and would not have been in front-line service long, with the ZundNadel carbine adopted in 1857.
Do you have a link to the photo. It's the first match to what he has. Thank you for the help.
Re: Help IDing Calvary Carbine
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:14 pm
by ffuries
He's excited, the picture you posted appears to be a match to his. See comparison pics.
Re: Help IDing Calvary Carbine
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:34 pm
by entropy
Re: Help IDing Calvary Carbine
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:03 pm
by ffuries
Awesome, thank you, he'll be ecstatic.
Re: Help IDing Calvary Carbine
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:56 pm
by Junk Yard Dog
ffuries wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:38 pm
I tried using Prussian in my searches, but as you stated it has a very unique saddle ring setup that I haven't been able to match at all.
As for being in the white, cool deal there, I thought it had been chromed or something. I'll let him know about your response and information. Thanks Jim.
Most if not all early muskets were it the white, including the British Brown Bess. Keeping these weapons clear of rust helped occupy endless hours of a soldiers time in barracks. The Red Coats used powdered brick dust to polish the brightwork, and redden their coats. I don't recommend this unless you have access to 18th century bricks, and know for a fact that they are so . Later bricks, not sure the cutoff date, had other materials in them that will damage the metal.
You had to show him the IMA thing, I was going to offer him a hundred bucks and a whole unopened bag of chocolate covered peanuts for that musket
Re: Help IDing Calvary Carbine
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:31 pm
by Junk Yard Dog
Do not polish the metal on this, the evaporust will remove the large areas of active rust, but will leave the gray patina alone.
Re: Help IDing Calvary Carbine
Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:08 am
by etprescottazusa91
Junk Yard Dog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:31 pm
Do not polish the metal on this, the evaporust will remove the large areas of active rust, but will leave the gray patina alone.
That is really sound advice JYD