The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

Picked up a really cheap Chinese SKS but it doesn't have the Chinese markings like my other one.

Could this be one of those Sino-Soviet sks?

There were no markings on the magazine buttplate or under the gas piston cover.

Some sights refer to it as a Sino-Soviet or a Ghost/Sterile rifle. Early Sino-Soviets had 4 digit SN preceded by a letter and typically the Tula star on the cover and stock, the next batch had a 5 or 6 digit SN with no letter preceeding it and typically no Tula star. Ghost/Sterile referring to the absence of an Arsenal Mark. After that the rifles had Arsenal Marks and a different SN system.

I think I got all the information right, still trying to keep it all straight in my head.

Yoopers site has some good information, along with here.

ETA: Links below, couldn't get them to paste to original post using my phone, it gets temperamental at times for some reason.

http://www.yooperj.com/SKS-36.htm

viewtopic.php?t=2343 (Link corrected)

My mix of letter Sino-Soviet parts on a 5 digit sterile rifle.

http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.c ... 56#p357795

Fixed the one link it was posted twice for some reason.

ffuries wrote:http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.c ... 56#p357795

http://www.yooperj.com/SKS-36.htm

My mix of letter Sino-Soviet parts on a 5 digit sterile rifle.

http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.c ... 56#p357795

Thank you sir,lots of good info right there.

Sonny wrote:

ffuries wrote:http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.c ... 56#p357795

http://www.yooperj.com/SKS-36.htm

My mix of letter Sino-Soviet parts on a 5 digit sterile rifle.

http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.c ... 56#p357795

Thank you sir,lots of good info right there.

Fixed the one link to the correct one, it posted the same link twice.

ffuries wrote:Some sights refer to it as a Sino-Soviet or a Ghost/Sterile rifle. Early Sino-Soviets had 4 digit SN preceded by a letter and typically the Tula star on the cover and stock, the next batch had a 5 or 6 digit SN with no letter preceeding it and typically no Tula star. Ghost/Sterile referring to the absence of an Arsenal Mark. After that the rifles had Arsenal Marks and a different SN system.

I think I got all the information right, still trying to keep it all straight in my head.

Yoopers site has some good information, along with here.

ETA: Links below, couldn't get them to paste to original post using my phone, it gets temperamental at times for some reason.

This is based of the /26\ factory only... not applicable to other factorys. The below serial ranges are from just over 5 years of collecting several thousand serials and particular rifle features, there are, I'm sure numbers that we have not found that could extend any one serial range slightly further.

The first production with the Tula star, these go to 1999 in serial are known as the Soviet Sino, less than 10 are documented.. I have #1239
The second group is based off collected serials..2292 to 213617 are known by many terms, serial, sanitized, or ghost..even Sino Soviet, but these have no factory stamp and one can find Russian stamps on parts.
Third group.. these are generally called 6 digit, serial range 213928 to 349367, now these have the factory /26\ stamp, Russian stamped parts can be found, just not as common as the two earlier groups.
The forth group.. goes straight to 2 million.. serial range 2377947 to 2441820, factory /26\ stamp. No 1 million rifles are documented.
And the list continues..3 million, 4 million, etc to 14 million.., there is also no 16 to 22 million serials, but the last 3 years known production for /26\ serial range is 23 to 25 million.

Several serial ranges that have not been found from factory /26\ are the 1 million or 16 to 22 million, no rifles in these ranges have been photographed or even documented to date. Do they exist????? No one can say until one surfaces. There is a odd ball 1.5 and 1.6 million /26\ production run as well, every single rifle found in these two ranges is a later production, with a short lug barrel and spike bayonet.

Greasemonkey wrote:

ffuries wrote:Some sights refer to it as a Sino-Soviet or a Ghost/Sterile rifle. Early Sino-Soviets had 4 digit SN preceded by a letter and typically the Tula star on the cover and stock, the next batch had a 5 or 6 digit SN with no letter preceeding it and typically no Tula star. Ghost/Sterile referring to the absence of an Arsenal Mark. After that the rifles had Arsenal Marks and a different SN system.

I think I got all the information right, still trying to keep it all straight in my head.

Yoopers site has some good information, along with here.

ETA: Links below, couldn't get them to paste to original post using my phone, it gets temperamental at times for some reason.

This is based of the /26\ factory only... not applicable to other factorys. The below serial ranges are from just over 5 years of collecting several thousand serials and particular rifle features, there are, I'm sure numbers that we have not found that could extend any one serial range slightly further.

The first production with the Tula star, these go to 1999 in serial are known as the Soviet Sino, less than 10 are documented.. I have #1239
The second group is based off collected serials..2292 to 213617 are known by many terms, serial, sanitized, or ghost..even Sino Soviet, but these have no factory stamp and one can find Russian stamps on parts.
Third group.. these are generally called 6 digit, serial range 213928 to 349367, now these have the factory /26\ stamp, Russian stamped parts can be found, just not as common as the two earlier groups.
The forth group.. goes straight to 2 million.. serial range 2377947 to 2441820, factory /26\ stamp. No 1 million rifles are documented.
And the list continues..3 million, 4 million, etc to 14 million.., there is also no 16 to 22 million serials, but the last 3 years known production for /26\ serial range is 23 to 25 million.

Several serial ranges that have not been found from factory /26\ are the 1 million or 16 to 22 million, no rifles in these ranges have been photographed or even documented to date. Do they exist????? No one can say until one surfaces. There is a odd ball 1.5 and 1.6 million /26\ production run as well, every single rifle found in these two ranges is a later production, with a short lug barrel and spike bayonet.

Just when you think you finally have a handle on the information, someone comes along and throws a monkey wrench in it Thank you for the education I have one SKS and it's a Sino-Soviet and Sino-Albanian, it is a sterile/ghost rifle SN 60932 (Reciever, trigger assembly, and magazine assembly), Bolt is SN F4460 and rear housing is SN E2634. I believe it was made around 1956 based on my limited research, and ended up in Albania and has stock graffiti.

Again thank you for the informative post and additional information, so many sites contradict each other (Updated versus outdated information versus just plain wrong) it starts to get confusing.

That puts my Chinese /26\ in the third group, 233657.

I was by no means trying to throw a wrench in it... it's just a different method and perspective based on the serial numbers, features and other known studied things.. Alot of the info elsewhere we felt was based off age old information, with all of the recent imports from Europe, it opened up a whole lot of questions which few could answer. Also in creation of this system below, the Type 53 was looked at, as was the Type 54 Tokarev, those two weapons almost mirror the same serial traits as the SKS.

And..... actually I missed a group.. So let me amend the mess slightly I made with my phone above and clean it up some.. And, also throw some explanation in with it all and show the data from the Mosin and Tokarev.

The very first production with the Tula star, these go to 1999 in serial are known as the Soviet Sino, less than 10 are documented.. I have #1239 These are believed to 1956
The second group is based off collected serials..2292 to 213617 are known by many terms, sterile, sanitized, or ghost..even Sino Soviet, but these have no factory stamp and one can find Russian stamps on parts.
Third group.. these are generally called 6 digit, serial range 213928 to 349367, now these have the factory /26\ stamp, Russian stamped parts can be found, just not as common as the two earlier groups.
The forth group.. goes straight to 2 million.. serial range 2377947 to 2441820, factory /26\ stamp. No 1 million rifles are documented.
Fifth group..3 million, serial range 3025478 to 3227681...
Now this is the group I skipped above, and it is a little controversial..the Letter series.. 2 years production, 24 months, 24 letters, a letter a month.
Then it picks back up at 6 million, 7 million. etc to 14 million.., there is also no 16 to 22 million serials, but the last 3 years known production for /26\ serial range is 23 to 25 million.

Several serial ranges that have not been found from factory /26\ are the 1 million, 4 and 5 million and 15 to 22 million, no rifles in these ranges have been photographed or even documented to date. Do they exist????? No one can say until one surfaces. There is a odd ball uncommon 1.5 and 1.6 million /26\ production run as well, every single rifle found in these two ranges is a later production, with a short lug barrel and spike bayonet, these we think are left over bits assembled in very early 70's, when Jianshe /26\ started tinkering with and producing the Type 63/68 hybrid.

So.......... when we the dumped serial numbers, features and what we think are build years all into one place.. all of the info for /26\ comes out like this....... Over 5 years of collecting several thousand verified serials and rifle features, this is the data...

1955/56: "test run" of Soviet Sinos, ~ 2k guns
1956: non-/26\ marked (ghosts, sterile) ~160k guns
1957: non-/26\ marked (ghosts, sterile) ~51k guns
1957: six digit /26\, ~136k guns
1957: 2 mil /26\, ~64k guns
1958: 3 mil /26\, ~215k guns
1959/60: Letter prefix /26\, possibly up to ~360k guns (360k guns would indicate two years worth of production)
1961: 6 mil
1962: 7 mil

Additional info on later years:

1961: 6 mil /26\ long-lug, side-swivel, large-font stock <----First arrival of the (type 56) Chinese characters.
1962: 7 mil /26\ long-lug, side-swivel, large-font stock
1963: 8 mil /26\ long-log, side-swivel, large-font stock
1964: 9 mil /26\ long to short lug swap at 9.1-9.2m, side-swivel, large-font stock, blade bayo change to spike
1965: 10 mil /26\ short-lug, side swivel relocated to bottom mid year, large-font stock
1966: 11 mil /26\ short-lug, bottom-swivel, spike-bayo, large-font stock <---- First arrival of stamped trigger housings, two piece gas-tube, plus the deletion of the carrier and bay lug lightening cuts
1967: 12 mil /26\ short-lug, bottom-swivel, spike-bayo, large-font stock
1968: 13 mil /26\ short-lug, bottom-swivel, spike-bayo, large-font stock
1969: 14 mil /26\ short-lug, bottom-swivel, spike-bayo, large-font stock

1970/77: 1.5 and 1.6 million, 15-22 mil /26\ rifles were not produced. Production shift to other arsenals for Jianshe /26\ to focus on the T63/68

1978: 23 mil /26\ short-lug, bottom-swivel, spike-bayo, large-font stock, <--- first arrival of the "french tickler" handguard
1979: 24 mil /26\ short-lug, bottom-swivel, spike-bayo, large-font stock
1980: 25 million.. these are currently being studied, as a few have surfaced since we started, they are short lug, bottom swivel. spike and large stock font also..

Again..... the info above is in constant flux and subject to change, an undocumented serial can change the data slightly.. We are constantly adding new info, adjusting serial ranges, but looking at Chinas serial methods of other weapons of the era.. We think the dating system is close..even though alot dispute it.

For instance.....the Type 54 Tokarev..
Forum board member yej0001 surveyed the data shown below. These are date stamped weapons, note the year vs. the serial method..

1954 - 1 million range
1956 - 3 million range
1958 - 5 million range
1959 - 6 million range
1960 - supposedly no T54 was made
1961 - supposedly no T54 was made
1962 - 7 million range
1963 - 8 million range
1964 - 9 million range; some in 11 million?
1965 - 12 million
1966 - 13 million
1967 - 14 million

The Type 53 Mosin, another year stamped weapon.. follows the same traits as the above weapons.. Note the Letter series....
1953: A000,001 thru A062,000 for a total of 62k rifles.
1954: 1,000,000 thru 1,305,000 for a total of 305k rifles.
1955: 1,305,000 thru 1,402,000 for a total of 98k rifles.
1955 /26\: 3,000,000 thru 3,330,000 for a total of 330k rifles.
1956: 4,000,000 thru 4,063,000 for a total of 63k rifles.
1957-1959: No production? or at least no info we could find.
1960: Letter series starts: A through K, Assuming 9999 per letter, that leaves around 110K rifles.

Again.. it's just a different perspective on the Chinese.. no one really knows.. And, I'm always looking for new numbers or features to amend it more.

I'm almost afraid to ask but where does mine fit in?

Sonny wrote:I'm almost afraid to ask but where does mine fit in?

Thats a good question because yours I would say is a scrubbed one/refurb,..I would lean towards refurb, looking at the sanding of the stock serial, China has been known to scrub receivers as well. It has a pinned barrel and a spike bayonet and no factory stamp, so it is a later one, I'm guessing based off those features, possibly 70's era. It's not a /26\ factory, those are threaded, not pinned, so it would be one of the other many factories in China.. I've seen photos of several Canadian examples like it.. it's really hard to judge.