The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

I just spent the last four days on a motorcycle trip with my son. Today before we left Kentucky we stopped at a small pawn shop. I asked about Mosins and they showed me a couple of war time refurbs. Nothing exciting. Then I noticed the sling hangers on this rifle. It was on an upper shelf and they acted like they forgot it was there. Well, this is what it was. 1915 New England Westinghouse. Captured by the Finns at some point. Man is this thing cool. Some dummy spray painted all of the metal. I have no idea of the condition of the metal under the paint but I got it cheap. I put it on layaway and I will get it next month when I am back that way. It has issues but hopefully I can get the paint off and the metal is ok.

Nice find!

I'm seeing maybe a refurb box on the receiver, couldn't that be Russian black paint? The barrel bands look Bubba.

I guess it is a possibility that the paint on the receiver is Russian. The paint on the butt plate and the magazine is gloss black spray paint.

I agree the receiver is most likely original Russian refurb. So it looks like you have a U.S. made Nagant for Russia then captured by the Finns and recaptured by the Russians. [emoji106]I would remove the gloss paint from the magazine and butt plate, or at least hit it with a little paint thinner to dim down the gloss and keep the receiver how it is. Someone may have messed with the stock also but it looks fine I would leave the stock how it is.

Thanks Mark, I agree. So, would the Russians leave a Finn stock on a rifle they refurbed? I guess that could be the case but I wasn't sure. Either way the fact that it is Russian paint makes me happy. I will leave it then.

Nice M91, lot of cool history going on there. The Russians did use a little black spray now and then. Congrats on a good score.

steelbuttplate wrote:I'm seeing maybe a refurb box on the receiver, couldn't that be Russian black paint? The barrel bands look Bubba.

No, no, no, no.

I see no "refurb marks on that rifle barrel shank. It has a squared N just at the barrel shank to the receiver. But not a refurb box.

This rifle was either captured or bought from the Russians before the war. Some one has painted it with a glossy black. The Russian used a flat-er black paint in the 60's and 70's, but never over the entire rifle. Just areas that didn't take the bluing very well. That is not the typical Russian red shellack on that stock. They did not do that stock finish either.

IF the Russians had got it back and refurbished it, ....it would have came apart and the stock would have been replaced. The bolt would have been re-stamped to match how the Russians did it and the Finn bolt numbers removed. None of that has been done to this rifle. I don't see a SA mark, but I do see the D mark. That is Finn.

The Russians did not refurbish M91, which is what this is. They had stopped using them before WWII. The Finns did use M91's all the way through the war.

The rifle is (in my opinion) a Finn captured or Russian purchase (by the Finns) rifle that someone painted the barrel on here in the USA. And also re-finished the sock here. This rifle was altered here, not by the Russians.

When the Russians started refurbishing rifles, they had no use for a M91. They would not have refurbed it. They may have altered it to M91/30 .... maybe, but probably not. Nothing on the rifle that has been re-finished was done by the Russians. It is not their finishes. Barrel bands look like M91 barrel bands.


Just remember one thing ...... The Russians did not refurbish M91's.... at all. Only M91/30, M44's, and M38's.

Needs some loving care and carefully remove the paint. It will come off ..... but no "sanding or scrubbing". The stock, well, that will be more of a problem. I'm not the expert in re-finishing stocks, but it can be helped and look pretty good.

Dolk

Take the metal out of the stock and rub with a lacquer thinner soaked rag. The paint will wipe off. Use a toothbrush dipped in the lacquer thinner to remove it from the crevices. Lacquer will not harm any remaining blue. Re oil when finished as the surface will be completely degreased. I have seen paint removed from wood without harming the underlying finish, but I am not sure how it was done.

steelbuttplate wrote:I'm seeing maybe a refurb box on the receiver, couldn't that be Russian black paint? The barrel bands look Bubba.

That's a Russian acceptance stamp not a refurb box.

If that were mine I would only redo the bands and magazine. The rest is old whoever did it. The Finns had several metal finishes.

steelbuttplate wrote:If that were mine I would only redo the bands and magazine. The rest is old whoever did it. The Finns had several metal finishes.

Finn's never used paint.
Finn's never used a finish like that on the stock.
Those bands are appropriate for that Finn rifle.

Nothing about the finish looks "old" to me. Just messed with. It can be made to look right again if you removed the paint with a remover or lacquer thinner (like stated above). That would be easy. But the stock is a little more of a challenge to me. I'd do it and try a "Finn" finish of some sort. Some of the guy on here can help you with that better then I can. And I have seen some "re-do's" that are not bad. Certainly better then what is on there now.

racerguy00 wrote:

steelbuttplate wrote:I'm seeing maybe a refurb box on the receiver, couldn't that be Russian black paint? The barrel bands look Bubba.

That's a Russian acceptance stamp not a refurb box.

I agree 100%. That rifle has never been back to Russia after it was used by the Finns. It was never refurb'd by the Russians.

Dolk

**Update**

So I spoke with a gentleman today who shed a little light on this rifle. I am going to say this now though, this is just his opinion and not mine. I am still learning and trying to unravel what this is that I bought.

He said he has two rifles very similar to this one. The key he said is the mark below the 5 is a Ukrainian refurbishment mark. He said they used paint. Both of his have the same type of paint on them. He said this particular rifle was made in New England, shipped to Russia, lost to the Finns, sometime during WW2 the Russians got it back, and it went to the Ukraine and was redone. If so that is a very rich history for one rifle. I will not sell this rifle ever, but he said it is worth way more than I paid for it. He also told me to leave it the hell alone, which I will.

tailgunner67 wrote:**Update**

So I spoke with a gentleman today who shed a little light on this rifle. I am going to say this now though, this is just his opinion and not mine. I am still learning and trying to unravel what this is that I bought.

He said he has two rifles very similar to this one. The key he said is the mark below the 5 is a Ukrainian refurbishment mark. He said they used paint. Both of his have the same type of paint on them. He said this particular rifle was made in New England, shipped to Russia, lost to the Finns, sometime during WW2 the Russians got it back, and it went to the Ukraine and was redone. If so that is a very rich history for one rifle. I will not sell this rifle ever, but he said it is worth way more than I paid for it. He also told me to leave it the hell alone, which I will.

Well, that's a great "story". That mark is not a "refurbishment mark". The Ukraine and Russia never refurbished M91 rifles because they had no use for a M91. It's an old rifle to them. Why would they refurbish something that they would not use? They were using the newer M91/30.

But believe what you wish. If they did what he said they did to them, they are the only three M91's they ever did that too ...... and would be worth thousands of dollars.

Fair enough. Once I get it home and take it completely apart I will decide what I am going to do with it. I appreciate all of the input. I just don't want to be "bubba" myself and alter something with a rich history.

So, I brought the rifle home Sunday. You guys are correct. This thing has black spray paint inside and out. I will start removing it tomorrow. Once the metal is cleaned up I will strip the wood and try and get it as correct as I can. Thanks for everyone's help.

Show us some pics. I would advise against a complete strip of the wood.

The only thing close to M-91 refurbishment that the Russians did and it wasn't really the Russians who did it, was the cutting down of the M-91's to make the 91/38's. Other than that, they had no use for them any longer except in cases where 91/30's, M-44's or M-38's were not yet available.

nice rifle. Buy the gun not the story. doesn't look like arsenal work. Bubba got at it? Restore stock to what? Leave it alone. it is what it is. God Bless America. Pro Libertate Patria