The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

JYD raised a good question on the ammo forum, "How Many" rounds do you plan on carrying if your bugging out on foot. Depends on your rifle choice, pistol or not, and what else are you carrying, your age, etc.
If your carrying a 7.62 200-300 rounds is about max. If you can make it with a 22 mag, you could carry 1000. Other stuff, water, pistol&ammo, food (go freeze dried), a cook pot. Socks, underwear,-shirt, towel, soap, toilet paper. First aid. 2 lighters, a poncho or piece of plastic. 60 lb. is a heavy load. 80 lb. is all you want. What have you got in your walkabout?

Only as an absolute last ditch measure, chemical or radioactive issues , and only to a nearby underground location that I know about. Forget about traveling any distance with all that shit on, the military or local authorities will relieve you of it the moment they spot you. Bandits will ambush you if you are on any sort of path. The only way you are getting away with packing that kind of heat off your own property on foot is if you are next to or in heavily forested and unpopulated terrain. You are bugging out into the wilderness. Your not the army or the police, you are not going to war, you will be keeping the lowest possible profile and firing your weapon only when absolutely necessary, and hiding from everyone you see. You could also hide ammo at your pre selected go to spot.....what? You don't have such a plan? You were just going to grab some gear and bugout? You will be dead in a day or two without a plan of some sort, preferably several plans, and you better fuck well test every bit of gear you will be staking your life and your family's life on before you need to use it. Test it by using it the way you will have to, you will find some gear will not work, some you will not need, and some that you will wish you had. Try walking a mile with 60 pounds of shit on your back if all you lift daily is the TV remote and you have a few years on you, eye opening experience if you survive the heart attack. Bugout is not a game for everyone, and if it isn't then you should prepare a shelter at home and leave off the fantasy's of doing a grizzly Adams into the hills. For most of you who are not in the militia and planning to take on the enemy a nice .22 will do the job, water and food will be much more important.

I live 2 miles from wilderness, a huge National Park, and have a wooded ridge to travel on to there. But, I know I can't walk a mile with a 60 lb. pack, or even a 30 lb. I have had 3 back surgeries, scoliosis, and I'm not going anywhere on foot. I'll probably die on my property. I just posted this to get the younger ones that can to think it through and prepare. What Jim said about having supplies cashed

At home we have a 36 hour pack of a family of 4 (Food and required items, no Firearms)
This is in case a disaster (like and earthquake takes the house down. I't in the attic so it can be got to fast or at least on the top of the pile of the house.Like Jim says, Bugg out is highly problematic. You can't carry enough food to keep you alive very long, so you better be pretty good at survival if you are going to the mountains. If you are going to "hold out" locally, you are better off at what ever is left of your house. There will be help in a fairly short period of time. I also have a one man 36 hour kit in my truck in a pack. That is so I can get back home if I'm at work during a disaster (earthquake or something).

If it is a world wide or Nation wide problem (like a nuc War), we're probably are all COOKED anyway. In that case, try a bomb shelter type of thing, but personally, I'd hate like hell to live in a hole and not be able to come out for a year only to find things still radioactive. That shit last a really long time!! And now you will die from that. Blow my ass up in the initial bombing and get it over with. I don't do well in closed in spaces!!!

So, bugg out bags (especially with a family) are really questionable in my book.

Now for ammo and firearms. You should always have something available, and pray and hope you don't need it. So you really don't need a LOT of ammo.

Just my opinion, and I'm sure others have their ideas about this stuff.

Now we also have enoughstandard food and dehydrated food, and grains to last us a year and a half. I doubt we will ever have to go that long but, I can't imagine myself (or my wife) allowing the neighbors kids to die in front of our eyes from starvation if I can do something about it. So we have enough to take care of a bunch for a short period. After that .... well, at least we tried.

I live inside a National Forest, already at my bug out spot.

I am bugging in, so I have thousands of rounds available. One of many problems with bugging out, is everybody else will be trying to bug out at the same time for the same reason. Successful bugging out would have to be done ahead of a problem, not after. I bought my "bunker" decades ago and can defend it better than somewhere else. Everybody has to die sometime and somewhere. I might not be able to decide the time, but I might be able to decide the where.

I remember over 10 yrs ago, the hurricanes here in Florida. The highways were packed with people bugging out. They sat there in their cars stuck in gridlock until the gas ran out. No, due to age and medical needs i`ll be staying home . I have enough of this and that and a few things that will come as a surprise to any scavengers. Had enough sense a few years ago in investing in ar500. Will i last forever ? will i last a large group onslaught ? Probably not, God grant me at least 15 minutes to say goodbye to whoever tries their luck.

Tourniquet and quick clot.

By the way, I remember watching a show on Army Ranger training, and after several weeks of brutal training and exercise, Their last task was to carry an 80 lb. pack on an 11 mile cross country march. Tough as it gets. Some of you soldiers tell me if I remember right. Their average age 19-20 their average weight 147 lb. If your that tough, you are ready. If not get 1/2 the weight outa that pack. At least 1/2.

99% are better off sheltering in place. My office is better suited than my home for SHTF situation. Concrete building, few Windows, flat roof with concrete walls built higher than the roof. Easier to defend and has more water stored there than my house. They are walking distance from each other; even for a family of four. Bugging out with a family of four...Good Luck.


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I've put back 20k rounds in assorted calibers, and enough materials to make up another 5-6k pistol rounds in various flavors. I'm staying put and shooting anyone that gets in range. My PSL and I are good out to 500 yards. As for food and water...I'm not saying.

For most people the issue with bugging in is that their home is not hardened. The average home is not defendable, thin wood walls, lots of window, materials that can burn. Everything from glass doors to easy road access. The best you can hope for in a situation like that is if the homes former owners built a bomb shelter in the back yard back in the 60's and it's still usable. Of course you can always build your own "storm" shelter today. Anything that disrupts the normal course of events for more than a week or two that isn't some weather related event will be catastrophic. Nuclear event, pandemic, economic meltdown on an order we haven't even dreamed about. In these situations you are highly likely to die sooner or later, probably sooner if your not living in some form of hardened shelter. Take away food, electricity, threat of punishment by the state and even people who you would not otherwise think of as a threat quickly degenerate into just that. I have seen this first hand during Hurricane Sandy when we had a small riot at the local fire station after dry ice promised by the electric company failed to materialize. The crowd thought it was being hidden inside for the personal use of the first responders and they stormed the building. There were fistfights, property damage and the Sheriffs office responded in riot gear and had to break it up. These were not folks from the "ghetto" This is a community made up predominantly by educated professionals, homes here start at 300 grand and average income is in low six figures and taxes are some of the highest in the nation . These people rioted over dry ice after four days with no power, just imagine what they would have done if it was four weeks without a food shipment. For those of you stuck in an urban or heavily populated suburban situation any event that goes past two weeks will mean that you are basically fucked. At home you will be vulnerable to attack by organized gangs of looters, individual desperados, even your neighbors who couldn't be bothered to prepare. On the road you will be dead in short order unless you own your own APC, and you will not find people in the countryside very receptive to your sudden arrival should you be lucky enough to escape. If you live in this sort of situation make a plan right now for a safe place to go, get an RV, pick a campground in a remote area and don't wait to see how bad a situation might get. Learn to recognize when things are getting serious and take a family vacation before it gets to be too late. I know people who rent storage lockers in rural areas and have material they might need prepositioned there along with their normal crap as it's cheaper to rent a storage locker outside of the city or suburbia. If a nuke goes off someplace in the country, or you hear about a mysterious sickness spreading get out immediately, you may have only hours before martial law shuts down roads or panicking people gridlock everything. If you get to your go to spot early you will be just another vacationer, you will have time for your face to become a normal part of the local community at the grocery or the five and dime before the roadblocks go up and armed local militia start turning people away. Don't think for a minute this will not happen when the shit really and truly hits the fan, local communities in the country know we can't feed the world and will have little hesitation about turning away outsiders fleeing the citys at gunpoint. You want to be on the other side of the barricades before they go up.

Everyone's situation is different, I have no family to worry about or provide for, I live in a rural area and if need be I can live off the land for a time. I have friends who live in even more rural areas that I do so I have a fall back position. Everyone I know is a hunter, shooter, LEO or other first responder, lot of former military, and they have their shit wired together. I live among a high percentage of people I know I can count on if things go sideways, my neighborhood is not made up of snowflakes who attack fire stations for ice. My friends are all hardcases like me armed to the teeth and ready to do whatever grim shit they need to in order to keep safe.

With all the doom and gloom Pandemic and EMP are the only major threats we really need to worry about. If there was Nuclear War those in NYC and other Metro Areas will be dead within hours. Many within seconds.

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With DPRK, Iran and such states having the bomb a nuclear event on a smaller scale is possible, one or several bombs, this is a possibly survivable event if you are far enough away and know what to do. Duck and Cover is valuable information again. If That little fat fuck in DPRK gets a lucky shot in and we lose a city or two out west this will have massive effect on the economy. The bomb may not get you but the economic impact and the chaos it causes probably will get you.

5 weapons I'm gonna have within reach, An M1A w/5 mags, a PPS 43 w/3 mags (9mm), a 92 Beretta w/3 mags, and a Model 12 Win. 12 ga. , a SKS w/ 300 on strippers, 500 rounds for each. I have a X-large ranger grave surrounded by boulders.

Junk Yard Dog wrote:With DPRK, Iran and such states having the bomb a nuclear event on a smaller scale is possible, one or several bombs, this is a possibly survivable event if you are far enough away and know what to do. Duck and Cover is valuable information again. If That little fat fuck in DPRK gets a lucky shot in and we lose a city or two out west this will have massive effect on the economy. The bomb may not get you but the economic impact and the chaos it causes probably will get you.

Iran doesn't concern me. They haven't waged war as a nation against another nation in almost 300 years.

North Korea we need to preemptively strike. A MOAB or two is in order over there.


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Pissing on a forest fire is all a few MOAB's will do when dealing with a country that has mobile missile launchers moving about at unknown and always changing locations. Nuclear strike followed by full use of anti missile defense systems. Some shit will get by, we will take a hit, so will South Korea and maybe Japan, but it will be over before they have better bombs and missiles that will do far more damage. We will have to wait and see if The PRC and Russia want to commit national suicide over the DPRK by striking at us. Of course nothing will be done and the DPRK will grow stronger, when it comes to a head we will all pay dearly, DPRK will be gone but so will much of us. Could be we deserve it for electing ineffectual leaders over the past 50 years or more who let the rot spread and grow rather than dealing with it decisively. The DPRK problem should have been handled already, now they have the bomb, and the missiles to deliver it.

We wouldn't dare launch a First Strike Nuke again. That could mean world destruction. Our Satellites can follow their launchers 24/7. We need to destroy them with Non Nuclear Weapons otherwise we risk pissing off a true nuclear power. It can and will be done. Hopefully with the Cooperation of Russia and China.

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That cooperation is not coming, if anything the possibility of it has gotten even more remote. We are now at the precipice, they will only grow stronger, their weapons better with every passing day. The fuckin " experts" told us it would take them years to build a missile that could reach CONUS if ever, it took them months and the test was successful. I strongly suspect they had lots of help from outside sources. There is no scenario were this ends well.

Junk Yard Dog wrote:That cooperation is not coming, if anything the possibility of it has gotten even more remote. We are now at the precipice, they will only grow stronger, their weapons better with every passing day. The fuckin " experts" told us it would take them years to build a missile that could reach CONUS if ever, it took them months and the test was successful. I strongly suspect they had lots of help from outside sources. There is no scenario were this ends well.

Your probably right about the lack of cooperation from Russian and China. China probably helped them build. Any chance of help from Russia went out the window with the new sanctions.

As far as the experts go it never made much sense to me why they said it would take years for them to have a Nuke. If we were able to build a Nuke in 5 years in the 1940s why would they think it would take countries today so much longer?

We need to level North Korea before they have full Nuclear ICBM capabilities. If they don't already.

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