New England Westinghouse (Possibly unissued, late production, surcharge) pictures added
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:12 am
Greetings and Salutations::
Two weeks ago I posted pictures of some of the components of the NEW I purchased at auction on 2/3/17. The post was titled "New England Westinghouse (Possibly un-issued)". I had already disassembled the rifle in order to begin removing 97 years of cosmoline and accumulated storage dust and grime, before I realized I should have taken some pictures of the rifle in the condition in which I had received it.
I had a number of responses requesting I post pictures of the rifle after it was cleaned and reassembled.
To refresh your memory, this is a non import marked; non "SA" marked, serial number matching rifle with both American and Russian proofs and inspector markings. I stated that I believed the rifle was one of the rifles sold by the DCM for $3.00.00 in the early '20's.
The previous owner, (or one of the previous owners), only removed the cosmoline from the external portions of the stock and bolt. So it took a little effort to remove most of the remaining cosmoline from the internals, stock channels and mag well.
I had a fair amount of success removing the cosmoline from the metal components with the exception of the trigger and sear. Despite using every break free agent known to man, and days worth of soaking, I was not able to remove the pin holding the trigger and sear in place, Part of the problem is, the pin, (or dowel) is beveled on both ends, preventing a punch from seating flush on the entire surface area of either ends of the pin. I bent my brass punch, and after having no success whatsoever with a steel punch, I abandoned my efforts rather than risk deforming the head of the pin, fearing I would not be able to return it to its original position upon reassembly.
BTW: The two screws in the butt plate and the small screw in the trigger assembly were brutal to remove!
I believe I have attached pictures of every marking on the rifle, less what may be on the underside of the front & rear sights, and markings that may have been visible had I been able to disassemble the trigger. On a component such as the bolt, for example, I took picture of both sides and the front and rear of the assembled bolt. Then I took close up pictures of the markings on the individual pieces of the bolt.
There are a number of sub contractor markings and a number of different NEW plant location markings on the rifle. Most of them I was able to identify: "<-E" for East Springfield; "<-H" for Chicopee Falls (Hill Plant) "<-M" for Meriden, etc. There are a number of "W"'s on the components. I was not able to identify the letter "T". (It's different from a Tula T"), or the letter "C". I suspect the letter "C" may stand for Chicopee. The "C" shows up on a number of parts and sometimes in conjunction with a known NEW marking somewhere else on the part. The letter "K" by itself, in a circle or in a circle inside a box is a Russian Firing Proof and the symbol that looks like a small letter "n", with both ends of the horizontal line extending a tiny bit beyond the top of both vertical lines is a Russian Acceptance Proof.
The mark on the barrel shank, directly below the "NE" in NEW, and just above, and slightly to the left of, the first digit of the serial number is a poorly struck "flaming bomb". It may have been double struck.
Also, the marking show in picture A41 is a poorly struck Flaming Bomb. I have seen a picture of a better example of that marking on the same piece, in the same place on another NEW, but the striking wasn't all that much better than mine. The picture was in this Forum and the symbol was purported to be a Flaming Bomb.
I am not sure about the marking in pictures 52 & 53! I think it is the right side of a flaming bomb?
I will be grateful if anyone can shed light on the images in 41, 52 & 53.
BTW: There is NO "Flaming Bomb" or U.S." marking on the stock above the trigger guard /mag assembly front screw. Those two symbols appear on the American made Remington MN's but NOT on the NEW Made MN's.
I stated I believed the rifle was un-issued! (It was certainly never disassembled). Take a look at pictures A72, A73, A92 & A93. Notice the "buttons", still in place, on the "correct" post 1909 / 1910 type two barrel bands! The screws on the barrel bands are not meant to be removed from the bands, and are rarely seen still intact due to the "righty loosey - lefty tighty threading on the screws. Turning the screws in the wrong direction resulted in the breaking and /or subsequent loss of those "buttons".
Also, if you didn't see my first post, I stated that while the previous owner removed the cosmoline from the visible components of the rifle, any and all parts of the rifle not visible when assembled, remained coated in cosmoline. When I first started cleaning the rifle, I couldn't pass a .22 caliber cleaning jig down the boar. Residual cosmoline is still visible in some of the pictures of the furniture and metal.
The bore, BTW, is brilliant and shows deep groves, There is no evidence of fouling, pitting, corrosion, frosting or oxidation. There was no way this rifle could have been fired since it was originally dipped in cosmoline. (I'm sorry the pictures are not better. They were the best I could do considering I used a cell phone and with my existing medical limitations.) Picture 50 is a PPU 7.62X54R cartridge and picture 49 is my .30 caliber gauge. The gauge has 11 lines on it ranging form 0 to 10. If you look closely in the picture you can see all eleven lines. So on my gauge, it gauges out at less than zero.
I'm almost certain I read a thread or post on this forum stating the post Czar / U.S. bail out - surcharge deal included, (in addition to procuring rifles already manufactured), the production of 200,000 more rifles by NEW. The serial number of the new production rifles began somewhere near 1.16 million. I also read that NEW produced 160,000 rifles per month, (or 5,333 per day). If the preceding statements are correct, that would me the last production run of NEW's would bear serial numbers ranging from approximately 1,160,XXX to 1,360,XXX. The serial number of my rifle is 1,339,816, (practically 1,34,XXX, or one of the last 20,000 made). If the above information is accurate, it would indicate this particular rifle may have been manufactured on the fourth last day of production, which could account for the rifle being relegated to storage during it's military / government life.
So: The unmolested stock; the pristine bore; the unmolested screws; the type two barrel bands with the buttons still in place; the very late production serial number, the serial numbered matching components; the U.S.and Russian proof marks; the cosmoline laden internals & bore; the absence of handling marks; the finish on the furniture; the lack of import marks; the plant markings on the internal components, and the lack of an SA mark, have me suspecting this rifle is one of the last M91's produce by NEW; was never issue; was stored in cosmoline by the government; was subsequently sold as surplus to the general public via the DCM in the early '20s for $3.00.00, and was never fired by a previous owner after the the original government test firing for proofing.
Regardless, if my assessment is wrong, relative to correctness and condition it is the best example of a NEW I have seen in person and one of the top five I have seen in pictorial display.
I won't have to make any excuses when I show this one to friends and fellow collectors.
Corrections or information contributions will be appreciated.
Best regards,
P.S: I did not know I would only be able to post 12 pictures. I have many more, including pictures of every mark on all the components. If anyone needs pictures of specific component markings, feel free to email mme with your request.
Also, view the pictures from bottom to top. Regardless of how I tried to load them, I couldn't get them to post in sequence.
Two weeks ago I posted pictures of some of the components of the NEW I purchased at auction on 2/3/17. The post was titled "New England Westinghouse (Possibly un-issued)". I had already disassembled the rifle in order to begin removing 97 years of cosmoline and accumulated storage dust and grime, before I realized I should have taken some pictures of the rifle in the condition in which I had received it.
I had a number of responses requesting I post pictures of the rifle after it was cleaned and reassembled.
To refresh your memory, this is a non import marked; non "SA" marked, serial number matching rifle with both American and Russian proofs and inspector markings. I stated that I believed the rifle was one of the rifles sold by the DCM for $3.00.00 in the early '20's.
The previous owner, (or one of the previous owners), only removed the cosmoline from the external portions of the stock and bolt. So it took a little effort to remove most of the remaining cosmoline from the internals, stock channels and mag well.
I had a fair amount of success removing the cosmoline from the metal components with the exception of the trigger and sear. Despite using every break free agent known to man, and days worth of soaking, I was not able to remove the pin holding the trigger and sear in place, Part of the problem is, the pin, (or dowel) is beveled on both ends, preventing a punch from seating flush on the entire surface area of either ends of the pin. I bent my brass punch, and after having no success whatsoever with a steel punch, I abandoned my efforts rather than risk deforming the head of the pin, fearing I would not be able to return it to its original position upon reassembly.
BTW: The two screws in the butt plate and the small screw in the trigger assembly were brutal to remove!
I believe I have attached pictures of every marking on the rifle, less what may be on the underside of the front & rear sights, and markings that may have been visible had I been able to disassemble the trigger. On a component such as the bolt, for example, I took picture of both sides and the front and rear of the assembled bolt. Then I took close up pictures of the markings on the individual pieces of the bolt.
There are a number of sub contractor markings and a number of different NEW plant location markings on the rifle. Most of them I was able to identify: "<-E" for East Springfield; "<-H" for Chicopee Falls (Hill Plant) "<-M" for Meriden, etc. There are a number of "W"'s on the components. I was not able to identify the letter "T". (It's different from a Tula T"), or the letter "C". I suspect the letter "C" may stand for Chicopee. The "C" shows up on a number of parts and sometimes in conjunction with a known NEW marking somewhere else on the part. The letter "K" by itself, in a circle or in a circle inside a box is a Russian Firing Proof and the symbol that looks like a small letter "n", with both ends of the horizontal line extending a tiny bit beyond the top of both vertical lines is a Russian Acceptance Proof.
The mark on the barrel shank, directly below the "NE" in NEW, and just above, and slightly to the left of, the first digit of the serial number is a poorly struck "flaming bomb". It may have been double struck.
Also, the marking show in picture A41 is a poorly struck Flaming Bomb. I have seen a picture of a better example of that marking on the same piece, in the same place on another NEW, but the striking wasn't all that much better than mine. The picture was in this Forum and the symbol was purported to be a Flaming Bomb.
I am not sure about the marking in pictures 52 & 53! I think it is the right side of a flaming bomb?
I will be grateful if anyone can shed light on the images in 41, 52 & 53.
BTW: There is NO "Flaming Bomb" or U.S." marking on the stock above the trigger guard /mag assembly front screw. Those two symbols appear on the American made Remington MN's but NOT on the NEW Made MN's.
I stated I believed the rifle was un-issued! (It was certainly never disassembled). Take a look at pictures A72, A73, A92 & A93. Notice the "buttons", still in place, on the "correct" post 1909 / 1910 type two barrel bands! The screws on the barrel bands are not meant to be removed from the bands, and are rarely seen still intact due to the "righty loosey - lefty tighty threading on the screws. Turning the screws in the wrong direction resulted in the breaking and /or subsequent loss of those "buttons".
Also, if you didn't see my first post, I stated that while the previous owner removed the cosmoline from the visible components of the rifle, any and all parts of the rifle not visible when assembled, remained coated in cosmoline. When I first started cleaning the rifle, I couldn't pass a .22 caliber cleaning jig down the boar. Residual cosmoline is still visible in some of the pictures of the furniture and metal.
The bore, BTW, is brilliant and shows deep groves, There is no evidence of fouling, pitting, corrosion, frosting or oxidation. There was no way this rifle could have been fired since it was originally dipped in cosmoline. (I'm sorry the pictures are not better. They were the best I could do considering I used a cell phone and with my existing medical limitations.) Picture 50 is a PPU 7.62X54R cartridge and picture 49 is my .30 caliber gauge. The gauge has 11 lines on it ranging form 0 to 10. If you look closely in the picture you can see all eleven lines. So on my gauge, it gauges out at less than zero.
I'm almost certain I read a thread or post on this forum stating the post Czar / U.S. bail out - surcharge deal included, (in addition to procuring rifles already manufactured), the production of 200,000 more rifles by NEW. The serial number of the new production rifles began somewhere near 1.16 million. I also read that NEW produced 160,000 rifles per month, (or 5,333 per day). If the preceding statements are correct, that would me the last production run of NEW's would bear serial numbers ranging from approximately 1,160,XXX to 1,360,XXX. The serial number of my rifle is 1,339,816, (practically 1,34,XXX, or one of the last 20,000 made). If the above information is accurate, it would indicate this particular rifle may have been manufactured on the fourth last day of production, which could account for the rifle being relegated to storage during it's military / government life.
So: The unmolested stock; the pristine bore; the unmolested screws; the type two barrel bands with the buttons still in place; the very late production serial number, the serial numbered matching components; the U.S.and Russian proof marks; the cosmoline laden internals & bore; the absence of handling marks; the finish on the furniture; the lack of import marks; the plant markings on the internal components, and the lack of an SA mark, have me suspecting this rifle is one of the last M91's produce by NEW; was never issue; was stored in cosmoline by the government; was subsequently sold as surplus to the general public via the DCM in the early '20s for $3.00.00, and was never fired by a previous owner after the the original government test firing for proofing.
Regardless, if my assessment is wrong, relative to correctness and condition it is the best example of a NEW I have seen in person and one of the top five I have seen in pictorial display.
I won't have to make any excuses when I show this one to friends and fellow collectors.
Corrections or information contributions will be appreciated.
Best regards,
P.S: I did not know I would only be able to post 12 pictures. I have many more, including pictures of every mark on all the components. If anyone needs pictures of specific component markings, feel free to email mme with your request.
Also, view the pictures from bottom to top. Regardless of how I tried to load them, I couldn't get them to post in sequence.
I hope you didn't give over $400 for that clunker..... 