The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

Hoping to identify the scope for this Mosin. I've seen many pictures of the PU scope and other weird hacks done to the rifles but I've never seen a pair of dowels sticking out.

What I know is this a 1944 Izhevsk m91/30 that has been refurbished since no other marking match. The bent bolt looks real yet none of the serial numbers match being a sniper model according to this site and others. This thing was so caked with cosmoline that I could even see the screw holes or dowels before I cleaned it. Attached is a picture of the screw holes and dowels sticking out. The dowel holes were drilled all the way thru. Hoping some one can tell me if these dowels are for the PU Scope or another? Perhaps shed some light on it. I can provide more photos if need be.



Thanks,
Dave

Seems to be a PU sniper without the scope hardware. Some of these were sold by samco and had come from Yugoslavia.

Post more photos of the rifle. It may help us help you better. Izhevsk drilled the pins all the way through. Tula did not. The spacing seems off, but let me post a photo for comparison. The rifle in my pic is a 43 Izhevsk PU.

...scratch that. I can't post photos from my phone right now. I will update later.

Here they are for comparison....borrowed pic from this site so there isnt any copyright problem...
his... and the reference... ...sorry Tim for the jack rabbit. Just thought more pics for comparison the better.

You will need to provide more photos.

Critical photos are of
the import marks (all of them up and down the rifle)
the left side of the barrel shank and receiver
top of the barrel shank

Without this, we can not say what you have other then what looks like a M91/30 that is either a sniper rifle without mounts, or a M91/30 that someone drilled and tapped.

Dolk

Thanks Tim, NL and RacerGuy. Those are very helpful replies. Here's a few more photos.

Pretty serious barrel grind. Can you post the import mark? If its not on the receiver look on the side of the barrel at the front sight...Thanks.

Have to have import marks first. Then sides of the barrel shank.

Did this come without a mount and optics?

Was it sold to you as a reproduction or real?

NLMosin wrote:Pretty serious barrel grind. Can you post the import mark? If its not on the receiver look on the side of the barrel at the front sight...Thanks.

Actually, a pretty serious "receiver grind". It is not on the barrel shank (on the left side). we are still waiting to see a clear picture of the left side barrel shank. Typical grind mark for removing scope numbers is on the side of the barrel shank,.....not the receiver. Wonder what they took off there? Maybe the import mark that was in the "wrong" location?

Is there optics and a mount? If so, we would need to see those photos also.

Dolk

...never seem to get my brain and my fingers to work together....thanks dolk!

racerguy00 wrote:Seems to be a PU sniper without the scope hardware. Some of these were sold by samco and had come from Yugoslavia.

Right on the nose Dave! I missed a bunch of those at a large pallet auction one time in PA. Still kicking my butt for that mistake. Bill

PS I had heard one time some of these were fitted with later model Soviet optics which could explain the grind mark. I have never seen one though so who knows if it is true or not?

I sure hope they didn't grind off the import mark, that modern type banner import mark typically found in that location tends to include the rifles official serial number. The number assigned to it once it reaches US shores, removing it is a serious crime that BATFE and other law enforcement agency's take a very dim view of. If there is no import marking else ware on that rifle then this is what was done, and it would indicate fakery as is so common with these sniper's. This is the kind of thing that would have me strip the action of any usable parts and slag the rest rather than risk even the remotest possibility of a felony change at some future date.

In reading Sepp Allerbergers memoir he mentions starting sniping on the Eastern Front with a captured Russian sniper rifle which had a 8x Zeiss scope mounted. I wonder what type of modifications that would require.

zeebill wrote:

racerguy00 wrote:Seems to be a PU sniper without the scope hardware. Some of these were sold by samco and had come from Yugoslavia.

Right on the nose Dave! I missed a bunch of those at a large pallet auction one time in PA. Still kicking my butt for that mistake. Bill

PS I had heard one time some of these were fitted with later model Soviet optics which could explain the grind mark. I have never seen one though so who knows if it is true or not?

Unless you can see a importers mark that I can't, I see shelack on that stock. SAMCO snipers never were refubished as they came out of Yugoslavia. They never had any re-finish on them and usually are darker stocks then this. This looks more like a refurbished Russian rifle. Only way to know if it is a SAMCO or what it is........ is by the import marks at this point.

Dolk

Import marks on samco's were sometimes not there. That is a well worn shellac coating by the look of it. Import marks would be on the under side of the barrel on the muzzle end and be very small stampings. Refurbishment on the rifle could have possibly been a long time ago and it has seen a lot of use since then? The former snipers I saw at auction were kind of light colored, they were at the Springfield Sporter location and there were several pallets of them. One bidder was taking almost all of the stuff regardless of cost and I quickly got disgusted and went home with nothing.
I later many years after saw a pallet of them at a Columbus Ohio show but the price they were offered at was ridiculous and I passed on them again. Another now dumb looking move looking back from the present time. I recall something like $300 to $400 which now would look OK I guess.
Bill

I have never seen a Yugo sniper without a Samco import mark yet. Maybe be one out there, but I've never seen one.

You can also tell if it is a Yugo sniper by looking at the "head" of the cleaning rod. It will be brazed on, and not molded on like a Russian M91/30.

Yugoslavia didn't use the typical Russian grease to preserve them. It is very dark in color and completely different then the Russian grease. And certainly not cosmoline which none of them used.

Yugo's from Samco were never re-furbished. They were used in WWII by Russia then sent directly to Yugoslavia after the war who never re-furbished them either. They missed the Russian refurbishment completely as the Russian refurbishment came years after the rifles were in the Yugoslavians hands. So if it is refurbished, it's not a Yugo and not a SAMCO Yugo sniper.

But you need to look at the import marks "first" to know where the sniper (if it is a real sniper) came from. That will tell the story. Anything else is a guess.

Dolk

Not import marked? Could have jumped the Canadian border.

One more thing I am looking at which is "interesting". But without import mark, I'm not willing to say it is a "problem". That import mark is critical on this rifle.

Dolk