The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

I'm thinking about thinning my collection so I've spent some time researching the market. With Pat Burns gone, I believe GB sets the market. So I've been reviewing closed listings where the Mosin actually sold. I also fired up a couple of spreadsheets where I had recorded prices when I was building my collection 4-5 years ago.

Finn M-39 - Common M-39s appear to be selling in the $425-$450 range. That's about $100 higher than common M-39s in 2011-2012. Keep in mind, these are GB prices not what you found a Mosin for at the pawn shop. I see a fair number of posts from people complaining about how expensive they have gotten.

Russian M91/30 - Refurbs appear to be selling between $230 and $270. That is up a bit more than $100 from where they were in 2011 and 2012. So the spread between the M91/30 Russian Refurb and the M-39 has stayed about the same. So have M-39s really gotten that expensive? Or is it that any kind of Mosin Nagant has gotten expensive.

Finn M28/30 - Prices tend to run close to the same as common M-39s, even though they are rarer. They are arguably as accurate as a M-39.

Finn M28 - Prices are right around $400 plus or minus.

Finn M27 - $300 to $325, just $50-$75 over Russian M91/30 Refurbs? You'r kidding, right? So what do you get for $50-$75. A larger OD barrel, less likely to deflect when hot. A heavier duty stock (later versions). An upgraded rear sight. An upgraded front sight. Finn build quality.

So if I was looking for a shooter, and didn't feel I could afford an M-39, I'd take a good hard look at the M-27. Or am I nuts. Opinions please!

M27s are selling for $400+ now unless they have issues.

Nothing wrong with a nice M27. My only complaint is the handguards on the pre-m39 Finns are paper thin. The M39 addressed that, and added a pistol grip to boot.

Lee,

I don't disagree with your post. I have three M-27s posted in the M-27 thread. Only one has an issue and that is an arsenal repaired stock. Collector grade M-27s are selling at $400 or more. But I was talking about a shooter. I was stuck by the number of M-27 sales or at least bid stops short of reserves between $280 and $350. Maybe there are more M-27s with issues as they are an infantry rifle that lived at the front through the Winter War and the Continuation War.

If I had very limited funds - too limited to pick up a M-39 - and my choice was between a M91/30 Russian refurb and a M-27 'with issues' I think the M-27 would be a better shooter. Of course i would need to be selective, first deciding what issues I was willing to live with. I clicked into most of those listings. A number had cracks in various places in the stock. One or two were counterbored. And in one or two cases the bore was worn down. I'd avoid the bad bores. I would live with a counterbore if the rest of the bore was sound. I might live with a cracked butt. Who cares if the numbers match when you are buying a shooter? But if my objective was to outshoot my buddies down at the rifle range, the right M-27 'with issues' would give me an advantage.

What got me started with Mosin Nagants was when my son picked up a Russian M91/30. I figured I needed to pick up a rifle so I could goo shooting with him. I did my research and picked up a generic M-39, a VKT. He'd been shooting regularly. I hadn't shot a high powered rifle in 45 years. He was beating me handily in the first 3-4 five shot target rounds. Then I started closing the gap. By the end of the session I was outshooting him. It wasn't me. The M-39 gave me a heck of an advantage. It is a lesson I'll never forget that led to a Finn Mosin Nagant collection.

Pretty accurate figures IMO, though M28/30s are difficult to find and usually command a premium. I think they are more in the $500-$600 range.

I'm stuck overseas, but I've been tracking gunbroker lately and have seen several M27s close sub 350 recently. One with a BIN at 350 that didn't sell. Refurbished 91/30s retailing at 289 makes the m27 a great deal.

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DJBuck1,

You are right about the M28/30. I was tripped up by multiple listings of the same rifle that hadn't received a bid at the asking price of $450. It had been Bubba'd.

Homer2 wrote:I'm stuck overseas, but I've been tracking gunbroker lately and have seen several M27s close sub 350 recently. One with a BIN at 350 that didn't sell. Refurbished 91/30s retailing at 289 makes the m27 a great deal.

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That one looked sort of rusty on pictures provided by the seller.

I guess I have seen more, nicely refurbished, M-27's than I've seen M-28's or M28-30's. Most at pretty reasonable prices. These are nice guns but there was a reason the Finn's moved to the M-28's. Doesn't matter though... A Finn collection should have these plus an M-39 or two or three or four...

The M-28 and M-27 were both introduced in the very late 1920s. The M-28 was designed by the Finnish Guard and carried by Guard troops. It was superseded by the M28/30. The M27 was designed by the Finnish Army and was carried by Army infantry. Both the M27 and M28/30 were still being produced when the M-39 was introduced. So the Finns didn't switch from the M-27 to the M-28. The M-39 was the first Finn Mosin where the Guard collaborated with the Army on its design. Some would argue that the M-27 was superior (more accurate) than the M-28. Almost all would argue that the M28/30 was more accurate than the M-27. That's how it worked in those days. One group was constantly trying to outdo the other. Some would also argue that the M28/30 was more accurate than the M-39.

This whole competition started out with the M-24 which was a Guard rifle that is almost a dead ringer for the M-91 produced by the Army at the same time. I have one of each of these with stepped barrels and I am constantly mistaking one for the other.

Sources????

Unless you can find a few hundred rifles in each model and place them on the same range on a set fixture, you are never going to be able to tell which of these models are more accurate. There is just not that much difference in these models. Fact is, you probably could find more "variation in accuracy" within a model then across these models.

I have 6 M27's now. All look about the same down the bore. Some are very accurate, but other are terrible and perhaps less accurate then a standard M91/30. Now having said that, I've seen M91/30's more accurate then a M27, M28, or M28/30. Most aren't, but they are out there. So how in the Hell can you possible compare these models without having a "control group" of each? You can't.

I have some M27's that are better then most my M39's. I have M28's that are better then most my M27's. M39's better then M28/30, and M28/30's better then most my M39's.

So unless you can "control the test firing of litterly hundreds of rifles", you only have speculation.....Then there is the "My rifle fires better then anyone's". How does that fit in??


This is a bit like our own F35 "joint fighter". It turned into the F35A, F35B, F35C....one for each branch of the service and each one claim to be the "best". And maybe they are in their own applications. One can vertical take off, two can't but one of those is faster then hell.

These rifles were the same thing. each branch of their service had different ideas. And, of coarse there's is better. Most of the accuracy on these rifles are how they were handled (each one individually) on the factory floor. Were they rushed or not? Or the guy making the barrels if he got a good sleep last night or not.

If I had to guess........I'd guess the M39's are the most consistent....especially the post war rifles. That is only based on how accurate most of my M39's (in shear numbers). But even that is a guess.


But for me....who cares!!!....I'm a collector first. Accuracy of a firearm is irrelevant in collecting. Condition, and features is key(along with a ton of other things).....I fire them for fun only.

Dolk,

Fair enough. I'll tell you what. You gather up a few hundred rifles and send them to me. I'll work on test firing them. When I'm done I promise to give them a good home. Can you send the ammo along too?

A lot of it is posturing. There was plenty of that going on between the Guard and the regular army. I just know mostly what I've read - which is a restatement of someone's opinion. I do feel that the average Finn (M27, M28, M28/30, M39) is going to outshoot the average Russian. Why - a better rifle design combined with better quality control. But that certainly isn't going to be the case for every rifle.

Like you, I'm a collector. I shoot them for fun too. But there is an element of competition when my sons are involved. Especially when I hear things like, "No way you're going to outshoot me - after all, you are an old fart ..."

I was at the range last week with my Sako M39 and was shooting some fresh reloads that I was trying with .308" hp bullets. Man, this was shooting good with several shots touching. I was shooting at 50 yards. I was really happy with it and it was hanging with my Swiss K31 no problem. Then I tried some .311 cast bullets that I had with me and it would not hit the paper. Literally every shot was off the paper except 1, which lead me to believe it was way high and right. I put it away for the day because I wasn't prepared to start on that issue at the moment. I do know that there are so many variables when it comes to accuracy that the old M27 vs M28 vs 28/30 vs M39 could go on forever and get nowhere.

Please don't make the M27 look like a great buy for a shooter as it is the Finn rifle I like best and can best see the sights on for some unknown reason. So now that you know that this is written purely for selfish reasons I will bring forth some pretty simple points I realized years ago and see how they sit with you guys and girls. !927 comes before all the other Finnish made rifles that were made by the Finns as special improvements to the Russian made Mosin other than the Lotta and the Step barreled Finnish made also in the 20's. It has born the brunt of the Fighting early in the wars Finland had to fight. That is why you see so many rifles rebuilt after the wars that are M27's. People sell off lesser rifles to raise money for the next buys so there are always plenty of well worn and Finn modified M27's for sale making the prices artificially lower in cycles at times. In all the years of collecting I have never seen a period in my life where long time collectors are cashing in their chips and leaving this world or selling collections more than right now. People will always sell their lesser guns first making as someone said many guns for sale out their with issues at lower prices. Other than the rifles I mentioned above M27's are the oldest groups of Finnish Mosins out there so they may tend to be lower in price for awhile till people grab their first line collection pieces and decide now is the time to sell this. When the cycle gets around to top of the line pieces again you may indeed see them go up in price.

I don't totally agree with your assessment of prices but you took the time to do it and print it so I am not going to jump on there and say you are wrong for sure. I find M27's going higher than you are saying but that is just conjecture on my part based on experience and nothing more. I especially find 28/30 prices to be much higher than you are showing sometimes topping 600 or 700 for nicer ones. I also totally discount anything that Classic (the used care salesmen) throw out there as I have ever since they under a different regime chrome plated M44's and sold them. I would buy nothing from them and listen less (as proven by recent statements) to what they say so I discount their prices also. Yeah I know evidently they own the rest of the M39's or will shortly and now will try and control the market but I am full of hope that they will soon run out and nobody else will sell to them. Idealistic thought for sure if they have money and buy everything they can get their hands on which apparently they do.

So in closing don't get everyone on the M27 band wagon as I want them all! Hehe! No seriously they are often good shooters and while the cycle is right the buys should be made. I have often said I often buy with thought but impulsively in action so try and keep a good balance when you look at anything and then go from there. God Luck and remember to enjoy shooting whatever you buy! Bill

Finn M91s, and M27s seem underpriced to me at the moment, IMO.

If you buy an M-39, your probably buying a '42-44 made rifle, continuation war use , not used as much as a 27 that went thru the Winter war and what ever else before that. Don't get me wrong I bought one of those Classic Sako's w/ cracked stock,a '44, it's had the shit shot out of it and got so hot it split the handguard twice, but it still has a tighter muzzle crown than the VKT with rifling like a cannon barrel.
I'm sure you could get a M-27 w/ good bore but it seems to me the chances are better giving another $50 for a M-39. I've got to take them both to the range, and see if this Sako's as goode as my other one.