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New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:43 pm
by madmax1299
I got a new sniper from royal tiger imports and the guy who did the ffl said the cutout for the mount was a little alarming to him. In the picture its looks like it was cut after it was finished is this normal? Also I took pictures of the symbols if anyone can tell me what they mean? Finally I posted 2 pictures of the gun as a whole if anyone has any comments or concerns I would really appreciate it! The trigger in the izy touches the metal behind it when fired is that normal? My tula does not do this.
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:48 pm
by Darryl
The marks are all typical that you see on any Mosin rifle (91/30). Mostly inspection parks (probably).
The base looks correct. I love to see more detailed (up closer) of the scope, mount and the left side of the barrel shank.
Can't really tell much without those shots. I wouldn't be so worried about the cutout until we see the other closeups. That will tell the story if it is real or not.
Also the import marks (made in the ussr or Russia ect.)
Dolk
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:35 pm
by madmax1299
dolk wrote:The marks are all typical that you see on any Mosin rifle (91/30). Mostly inspection parks (probably).
The base looks correct. I love to see more detailed (up closer) of the scope, mount and the left side of the barrel shank.
Can't really tell much without those shots. I wouldn't be so worried about the cutout until we see the other closeups. That will tell the story if it is real or not.
Also the import marks (made in the ussr or Russia ect.)
Dolk
Are these pictures what your looking for? So is it normal for the cutout to look like it was done after the finish was put on the gun?
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:50 pm
by zeebill
Could you take a couple of shots of the wood cuts for the scope mount with the action removed from the stock? With what you have shown so far I am not sure. Bill
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:53 pm
by Darryl
I'd like to see the import marks please. The mount is correct. The scope is correct. The base is correct. The side of the barrel shank "looks" correct would love to see more photos of that area.
The cutout is of less importance to me as the rest of it looks authentic and lends credibility to the rifle.
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Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:10 pm
by Darryl
Here I see a little bleed over of the shellack onto what you are calling a "fresh cut". That tells me the shellac was on there after the cut. It is possible they "re-cut" the mount opening to accommodate a different mount when it was refurbished. No two are the same. Also, if you look at the side of the barrel shank, you see the x out of the old scope. I'd venture to guess that is a different scope and mount and maybe base then the original rifle had on it. This happens during refurb.
cutout.jpg
On the shank is x'ed out scope numbers. This is common if the scope was destroyed and a new one put on. All the "proof marks" are high on the side of the barrel shank indicating this was a sniper barrel fro the get go. So the receiver and barrel are probably legit also.
shank.jpg
I wouldn't worry too much about the cut out. Send a photo of the import mark. If that is correct, then it's probably legit all the way (I think it is anyway).
Dolk
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:14 am
by madmax1299
dolk wrote:I'd like to see the import marks please. The mount is correct. The scope is correct. The base is correct. The side of the barrel shank "looks" correct would love to see more photos of that area.
The cutout is of less importance to me as the rest of it looks authentic and lends credibility to the rifle.
.
Here are the pics of the import marks tell me if you need more! Thanks!
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:09 pm
by WeldonHunter
It's a Tulsky that came in through I.O. Inter Ordnance.
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:40 pm
by Darryl
WeldonHunter wrote:It's a Tulsky that came in through I.O. Inter Ordnance.
Yes, and was sold by Royal Tiger.....and still is (not many left though).
That is what I was hoping to see. The import marks - Tulsky
Dolk
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:41 pm
by Darryl
dolk wrote:WeldonHunter wrote:It's a Tulsky that came in through I.O. Inter Ordnance.
Yes, and was sold by Royal Tiger.....and still is (not many left though).
That is what I was hoping to see. The import marks - Tulsky ("T" in a circle inside a triangle)
Dolk
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:35 pm
by zeebill
zeebill wrote:Could you take a couple of shots of the wood cuts for the scope mount with the action removed from the stock? With what you have shown so far I am not sure. Bill
Again I ask and the pictures you have sent still do not show me what I am asking to see. Remove the action from the stock and shoot some shots parallel to the front to back length on the stock from above looking down into the empty stock. Another words I want to compare the cuts for the action versus the cuts for the scope and mount. Shoot from butt forward and the fore stock rearward.
I also want to bring notice to the imperfection noted by picture in the shot of the wrist of the stock and where it is plain an imperfection in the finish is covered by a later coat of finish. Thanks for your indulgence! Bill
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:33 pm
by madmax1299
zeebill wrote:zeebill wrote:Could you take a couple of shots of the wood cuts for the scope mount with the action removed from the stock? With what you have shown so far I am not sure. Bill
Again I ask and the pictures you have sent still do not show me what I am asking to see. Remove the action from the stock and shoot some shots parallel to the front to back length on the stock from above looking down into the empty stock. Another words I want to compare the cuts for the action versus the cuts for the scope and mount. Shoot from butt forward and the fore stock rearward.
I also want to bring notice to the imperfection noted by picture in the shot of the wrist of the stock and where it is plain an imperfection in the finish is covered by a later coat of finish. Thanks for your indulgence! Bill
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:08 pm
by NLMosin
"I also want to bring notice to the imperfection noted by picture in the shot of the wrist of the stock and where it is plain an imperfection in the finish is covered by a later coat of finish. Thanks for your indulgence! Bill"
Can you elaborate please sir?
If it was the original stock would it have a finish on the cut out?
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:16 pm
by zeebill
madmax1299 wrote:zeebill wrote:zeebill wrote:Could you take a couple of shots of the wood cuts for the scope mount with the action removed from the stock? With what you have shown so far I am not sure. Bill
Again I ask and the pictures you have sent still do not show me what I am asking to see. Remove the action from the stock and shoot some shots parallel to the front to back length on the stock from above looking down into the empty stock. Another words I want to compare the cuts for the action versus the cuts for the scope and mount. Shoot from butt forward and the fore stock rearward.
I also want to bring notice to the imperfection noted by picture in the shot of the wrist of the stock and where it is plain an imperfection in the finish is covered by a later coat of finish. Thanks for your indulgence! Bill
OK that shows me what I am looking for! I thank you for your patience with me. It shows what I have seen in many pictures of the later judged "real" snipers, Differing freshness in the cuts for the action and inlet for the scope mount. I have no problems with the parts being the real things but I do take exception to the obvious fact that the cuts for most of the scopes and mounts are very fresh as are some of the inletting cuts for the action. Even where they have recent coats of shellac they all show sharp and recent cut edges and possible over coats of shellac from later applications. None of the earlier groups have those obvious fresh cuts in the stock that show often and obviously to me. I do not like many profess to be any sort of sniper expert but those to me are always will be parts rifles assembled recently with modern help and labor. That to me is not what I want in my collection but that is just a personal opinion and feeling.
Many of you will argue this till the day you die and frankly I could care less as I have made my stand and questions are not being answered by what I see in many of the pictures. All I see is more and more evidence supporting the way I feel about the current batches being sold now and recently. If you feel this type of weapon represents what you want and will collect, then have at it. That is why you have your collection and thoughts and I have mine.
Regardless of what your feelings are these are all that is out there right now and I guess if you want one and the price is within your reach now is the time to have one as the numbers of even these are dwindling to very few. We can ague this till we are blue in the face and all most of us will have is here say evidence from others who may indeed have irons in the fire in some way. So jump me if you may I have none of these rifles nor do I want any of them and have no other irons in the fire either. Matter of fact I have a close friend who is heavily invested in this current crop and we have talked long and hard about it too. My only final comment will be I see what I see and my mind cannot refute that. Bill
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:46 pm
by NLMosin
" these are all that is out there right now and I guess if you want one and the price is within your reach now is the time to have one as the numbers of even these are dwindling to very few."
Unfortunately this is all the new collectors have access to...I've seen posts in these forums that say RTI sells the real deal. The real deal by whose standards? If a collector like zeebill wouldn't have one in his collection then what are we to think? Sad days folks.
I'm not crapping on RTI, Heck, I might have to get one of the last few they have...just wish there were other options to choose from.
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:23 am
by zeebill
NLMosin wrote:" these are all that is out there right now and I guess if you want one and the price is within your reach now is the time to have one as the numbers of even these are dwindling to very few."
Unfortunately this is all the new collectors have access to...I've seen posts in these forums that say RTI sells the real deal. The real deal by whose standards? If a collector like zeebill wouldn't have one in his collection then what are we to think? Sad days folks.
I'm not crapping on RTI, Heck, I might have to get one of the last few they have...just wish there were other options to choose from.
Very Well Spoken! Unfortunately I know of what you are saying and I really have no answer for you. I was Oh so lucky in my timing to start collecting and the fact that I was single and made decisions not effected by others well being and survival. I also mention often the uncountable times I have been burned and learned the hard way. I just hope and pray I can stop some of you folks from getting the same path toward learning without misleading any of you. Most of the older collectors on this forum are Oh so helpful and patient and will help to a fault at times. Wish I had access to them when I started out, so at least you are way ahead of us older folks that way. I will often lose my patients with young'uns and for that I pray for an improvement in my attitude and I realize it doesn't help either of us. I am very much impressed by the knowledge and the way many newbies come here willing to read till the lights go out to learn. Man if I had been that way when I was your age I would not have made so many mistakes in life. Hey I have a lot of blessings so I am not complaining at all just trying to enjoy the younger persons attitude and spirit! You guys keep me smiling everyday and for that I really Thank You! Bill
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:02 pm
by Darryl
NLMosin wrote:" these are all that is out there right now and I guess if you want one and the price is within your reach now is the time to have one as the numbers of even these are dwindling to very few."
Unfortunately this is all the new collectors have access to...I've seen posts in these forums that say RTI sells the real deal. The real deal by whose standards? If a collector like zeebill wouldn't have one in his collection then what are we to think? Sad days folks.
I'm not crapping on RTI, Heck, I might have to get one of the last few they have...just wish there were other options to choose from.
There are always "other options to choose from".
With sniper rifles it is not like refurbished 91/30's. They were handled different in there process (if you don't know that, then your not much of an authority on PU snipers). All of your "parts" of this rifle are genuine M91/30 PU sniper parts. That is clear. The stock is the only part that has a different "way" about it. If there were other items that were not PU sniper, I'd hold my hopes back on it being legit. But all the other items point to a legit rifle. So why would someone replace the stock??? Probably didn't. I have seen PU sniper stocks come out looking like that. They probably refinished everything and had to re-fit a different scope then what was on it originally. They probably had to cut the stock to fit the new base and mount and scope. In fact, we know that is not the original base and mount and scope.
Now, if anyone wants to show me a lot of "non-refurbished" PU sniper rifles for sale, I'd be happy as a pig in shit to see them. Fact is, there are very few in this world. All of the snipers were refurbished just like the M91/30's. Well, most of them were. There are a few exceptions, but they are rare to see and coming out of Russia. They come out of other countries. So, if you want a PU sniper rifle (all genuine original parts (maybe put together, and some the way they were, then you have to buy a refurb.
I know there are people that don't like refurbished Mosins. In the PU area, this is what there is available. Periodically you can find one that is not refurbished, but they are rare to find. Get over it!!!
Here is the other option:
Pay $2000 plus for a non refurbished PU sniper (if you can find one for sale). They are just at different levels of collect-ability. Just like the difference between a M27 and a M27rv. One is harder to find, but both are collectable. Same with a refurbished PU Mosin. Anyone tells you different, ask them why a PU refurbished sniper rifle sells for 3 to 4 times as much as a refurbished rifle, and at least twice as much as a non-refurbished standard Mosin M91/30. Because of what it was and is now.
The rifle above is a refurbished PU sniper rifle exported by Tulsky and sold in the US by Tiger Imports. Same as any other refurbished PU sniper rifle such as RGUNS.
Dolk
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Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:33 pm
by NLMosin
"if you don't know that, then your not much of an authority on PU snipers"
Never said I was sir. I come here to read and learn. I can put posts side by side that have conflicting info and opinions and this one is another example. I dont have an opinion to defend, no dog in this fight. I read the opinions of the long time collectors and try to pay attention to the ones with the most consistant info, not the most posts.
Dont know if the statement above was directed at me specifically or collectors new to the mosins in general. I cant speak for them, but for me you are correct in you assertion.
" Hey I have a lot of blessings so I am not complaining at all just trying to enjoy the younger persons attitude and spirit! You guys keep me smiling everyday and for that I really Thank You!" ....now thats a closer!
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:56 am
by zeebill
Re: New Sniper! Help on authenticity!
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:51 pm
by OLd_Sarg
thanks for all the info guys, my sniper is a refurb also; this just verifies it to me the how and why of the small inconsistency's like the cut wood in this example.
it is clear the armorer doing the refurbs wasn't worried about any future historical significance, just "get um done and get home to Momma"