The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

I have read bits and pieces about the need for filler like corn meal or cream of wheat. Why is this used if the ball goes all the way home in the revolver's cylinder?

I understand using Crisco or other such products such as bee's wax back in the day when weather might make it difficult to keep the powder dry. Even then I would have thought that the tight fit of the bullet should seal the cylinder OK. With modern Wonder Wads why would you want to add Crisco? I imagine it might make a mess when fired and what about barrel damage? I have read that having ANY substance such as oil can cause the bullet to force that substance between it and the barrel causing a bulge. Wouldn't Crisco do just the same?

Crisco....old school. Some still use it and won't use modern products. They want to stay "authentic". Crisco, and wonder wade "may keep the powder dry, but it's main function is to keep sparks from fired chambers from crossing over and going down between the cylinder and the ball and igniting another chamber. Called "chain fire". If you look at your revolver, you will notice all 6 cylinders have a way for the ball to exit in case this happens. if they didn't, it would blow up. And believe me, chain fire can happens (if you don't use anything). In the old days, crisco and sometimes bee wax was used to keep this from happening. A side effect is, it also keeps the water out.

Wonder wades do the same thing and are easy to use and not so messy.....but not very authentic

I've never used "fillers" except in black powder cartridges. There is it critical in cartridges that there be no air pockets or the pressure builds and blows the cylinder. Only time I've seen it used in muzzle loaders is in revolvers. Some say that the ball should be even with the end of the cylinder and if you load lite, then in order to get that is to add filler. Not sure the reason for the ball flush with the end of the cylinder is, but I've always heard that. Jim does it, and he may know more about that.

Dolk

I don't use Crisco or anything else over the bullet, but I do use wonder wads. I know what you mean. When you think about it how is a spark going to get past a ball that is shaved and squeezed into the cylinder? Still the ones who know best say it can happen. I could be in error but it was always my understanding that the wonder wads eliminated the need for the grease or lube over the bullet. I have never had a chain fire in my Ruger Old Army. I have never used a filter because I use enough powder that I don't need the filler but if there is any doubt that you are seating the bullet deep enough then you gotta have more powder or filler. You MUST NOT have a air gap between the powder and bullet. As for the bullet being flush with the edge I'd the cylinder, I don't see that. On the other hand the grease or lube over the ball is supposed to be good for lubing the bore. I would use the Thompson Center Bore Butter.

The important thing is to keep the ball seated on the powder and the Crisco (or whatever) over the bullet to seal the cylinder. I have seen a chain fire and it's scary as the bullet in the chamber at the six o'clock has no where to go but into the loading punch.

I'm here to tell you... I have had a chain fire. In a Walker. One out the barrel, and one I think it was on the left side and just one down from the top. You can hear the second detonation and hear the bullet coming out the side. Sounds a little strange. Not to mention the recoil. Didn't "scare" me because it was over before I even knew it was happening. But I remember the bullet out the left side sent shrapnel in a couple directions as it hit a part of the revolver coming out.

I was using wonder wades at the time also. After that, I always used two under the ball. Never had that happen again. Not sure why it happened the first time. When you think about it, how in the heck can it get by the lead ball. I always wondered it maybe I got some powder trapped between the ball and the chamber, and it acted like a fuse going by the ball. Only think I can think.

I don't worry about it anymore!

dolk wrote:I'm here to tell you... I have had a chain fire. In a Walker. One out the barrel, and one I think it was on the left side and just one down from the top. You can hear the second detonation and hear the bullet coming out the side. Sounds a little strange. Not to mention the recoil. Didn't "scare" me because it was over before I even knew it was happening. But I remember the bullet out the left side sent shrapnel in a couple directions as it hit a part of the revolver coming out.

I was using wonder wades at the time also. After that, I always used two under the ball. Never had that happen again. Not sure why it happened the first time. When you think about it, how in the heck can it get by the lead ball. I always wondered it maybe I got some powder trapped between the ball and the chamber, and it acted like a fuse going by the ball. Only think I can think.

I don't worry about it anymore!

Never had a chain fire. I prefer to load cylinders off the frame, push the ball down below the cylinder face with a starter, (over a wonder wad), and re-install the cylinder and ram the ball down solid, and cap. When demonstrating for new shooters, I put some "Blue & Gray" grease over the ball. I got the tube of it with the '49 Baby Dragoon in @ '78, and still have half of it. WIsh I still had the Baby Dragoon, that was a fun little popper.

The thread title sounds like a lazy Sunday morning breakfast on the veranda down rayjd2's way.....

I think I am gonna buy a new tube of Bore Butter and not take any more chances.

I've had chain fires myself and it happens pretty easy sometimes. I've had it happen and not even know it until hammering down on a empty chamber as it comes around. That soft lead can peel right around the side of the revolver and never leave a mark. I use wonder wads and haven't had any problems now... I laugh when I see those stocks that fasten to the revolver making it a type of rifle. Be danged if I'd want to shoot one and have a ball go through my hand or forearm... Always keep your hands back near the butt area while shooting.

I just use the wonder wads to full the space and bring the bullet up to the chamber mouth. Anywhere from 3-5 of them depending on the revolver and the charge.

What about the issue of causing barrel damage by introducing oil into the bore ahead of the bullet? If it is a problem for some guns, why not for these revolvers? Is the bullet propelled by black powder too slow to be a problem?

entropy wrote:

dolk wrote:I'm here to tell you... I have had a chain fire. In a Walker. One out the barrel, and one I think it was on the left side and just one down from the top. You can hear the second detonation and hear the bullet coming out the side. Sounds a little strange. Not to mention the recoil. Didn't "scare" me because it was over before I even knew it was happening. But I remember the bullet out the left side sent shrapnel in a couple directions as it hit a part of the revolver coming out.

I was using wonder wades at the time also. After that, I always used two under the ball. Never had that happen again. Not sure why it happened the first time. When you think about it, how in the heck can it get by the lead ball. I always wondered it maybe I got some powder trapped between the ball and the chamber, and it acted like a fuse going by the ball. Only think I can think.

I don't worry about it anymore!

Never had a chain fire. I prefer to load cylinders off the frame, push the ball down below the cylinder face with a starter, (over a wonder wad), and re-install the cylinder and ram the ball down solid, and cap. When demonstrating for new shooters, I put some "Blue & Gray" grease over the ball. I got the tube of it with the '49 Baby Dragoon in @ '78, and still have half of it. WIsh I still had the Baby Dragoon, that was a fun little popper.

The thread title sounds like a lazy Sunday morning breakfast on the veranda down rayjd2's way.....

You didn't think I frequented this page, huh?

The hells a veranda? Some kind of porch? We eat inside, else the flies would make off with the food and the mosquitoes off with us.

And we use Lard, pure and unadulterated. For a spark seal of course. For frying we use vegetable oil.

A veranda is another word for porch, a proper veranda has screens to keep the bugs out. You are supposed to fry with the lard and use the veggie oil for......well, I have no idea what it's used for past bio diesel.

So it's a screened porch. Exactly what I was thinking. Y'all's fancy and like up north!!

Hey Ray what are you doing over here on the BP forum? Just kiddin. I can't imagine using up all those Wonder Wads Jim. They are up to about 8 or 9 bucks now per hundred.

Besides when you fire with Crisco reminds me of fried chicken and who don't like fried chicken?

bunkysdad wrote:Hey Ray what are you doing over here on the BP forum? Just kiddin. I can't imagine using up all those Wonder Wads Jim. They are up to about 8 or 9 bucks now per hundred.

I bought 1000's long ago when they first came out, it's mostly the big stuff I use more than one with, I do most of my BP shooting with the smaller Colt '60 Army, or the Remington.

Nobody has an opinion about the barrel bulge issue? That is the only thing that might stop me from using Crisco or Bore Butter or something else.

I di like the idea of gunsmoke that smells like fried chicken . . .

hudson29 wrote:Nobody has an opinion about the barrel bulge issue? That is the only thing that might stop me from using Crisco or Bore Butter or something else.

I di like the idea of gunsmoke that smells like fried chicken . . .

I don't know enough to say, but found this thread in a google search. One guy mentions your excess pressure concerns, but nothing is more is said about it. It seems that the over bullet grease just helps keep the fouling soft, and that chain fires seem to be caused more from ill fitting caps than a spark bypassing the bullet from the mouth. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=548565

Lard was used on these revolvers back in the day, the only mention of BP revolvers blowing up (literally cylinder is now useless) that I can confirm are from Walkers and some of the ones made here in the States War.

Walker: original conical bullets were loaded backwards. 1/3 sent back for repair. Can't find any reports of the round balls doing that.
CSA: who knows? Those reports could've been chainfires, it's just apochraphyl.

What might be a good remedy is to smear some crisco or lard around the base of each cap AFTER you put it on the nipple. That should seal it quite well.

rayjd2 wrote:Lard was used on these revolvers back in the day, the only mention of BP revolvers blowing up (literally cylinder is now useless) that I can confirm are from Walkers and some of the ones made here in the States War.

Walker: original conical bullets were loaded backwards. 1/3 sent back for repair. Can't find any reports of the round balls doing that.
CSA: who knows? Those reports could've been chainfires, it's just apochraphyl.

What might be a good remedy is to smear some crisco or lard around the base of each cap AFTER you put it on the nipple. That should seal it quite well.

No. You don't need to seal the cap; If they are loose, just pinch the sides a little. Crisco on that end of the cylinder=misfires.