The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

Well i joined the CMP forum and i noticed the Garand collectors are the opposite from the mosin collectors... They want everything new and refurbished... They even talk about how they throw away stock repairs that have some nice characters like artwork and put new CMP wood... They repark all the parts also... The newer unissued look the better =/

I dont know... i understand an unissued Garand i would love to have also... But a true unissued one not a redone... but i like the battle look also that shows the true history what it went through...

Different strokes for different folks.

I'll take my old DCM acquired M1 with the dents in the stock, all the proper cartouches, and looking like a WWII veteran. It also still shoots damn good, so why change it. I got it in the mid-80's and would never sell it.

They are shooters, not collectors, collectors would pay extra for the stock repairs. Stock repairs would be from the various allies we gave Garand's to, Uncle would just replace a damaged stock with a new one. Uncle had money.

Junk Yard Dog wrote:They are shooters, not collectors, collectors would pay extra for the stock repairs. Stock repairs would be from the various allies we gave Garand's to, Uncle would just replace a damaged stock with a new one. Uncle had money.

This is what one guy said...

I have been collecting, building shooting Garands for many years. You have a very common biscuit repair
If you Google : "greek biscuit repair garand" there are pages and pages or reading about them. Also click on images you will see many pics of them
What you have is not rare...

What i said...

I like the biscuit style... its on my top handguard do you have them for the stock?

what he said...

If I ever received any on my Garands first thing I did was remove them and threw them away or gave them away and put a new one...

What i said...

Eek i Guess You Not About the beauty of real history...

What he said...

I am all about history, thats why I have owned over 30 Garands at one time.
I dont care for handguards with bicsuit repairs. IMO they are ugly and they tend to loosen up and fall out. I think most people feel the same way thats why you dont see alot of pictures of them. They change them out for better looking USGI wood

I warned you before going there that they're different than the helpful guys you'll meet here. As JYD said most of them are shooters who go to Camp Perry and other places competing each year. Some are for the history of the rifle as I am but most of them are into doing all it takes under the CMP rules to shoot the best. I myself when buying my M1 Garand wanted the best for my money spent and picked up a like new CMP Special..... Now you guys have started these posts and I'm wanting a war time veteran M1

Curse you all

Jbob wrote:I warned you before going there that they're different than the helpful guys you'll meet here. As JYD said most of them are shooters who go to Camp Perry and other places competing each year. Some are for the history of the rifle as I am but most of them are into doing all it takes under the CMP rules to shoot the best. I myself when buying my M1 Garand wanted the best for my money spent and picked up a like new CMP Special..... Now you guys have started these posts and I'm wanting a war time veteran M1

Curse you all

Read what i posted above your post...my convo with someone there

Yea, the shooters don't look at these rifles as milsurps, as far as they are concerned the M1 Garand is still the US service rifle. They treat them as if it's 1955 and the weapon must be maintained in top as new form. What's most important to them is that the rifle drill all eight rounds through the same hole, or as close as possible to that, the history and originality of the rifle as an antique do not enter into it except as a passing thought every 6 June.

Sounds like you jumped in with both feet... Whole different world some of those folk live in.
After all the bragging about the helpful folks at the CMP north store I wasn't to impressed with them either. About the rudest and unfriendly people I've ever delt with.
I wasn't there long, just made my pick then handed them over $1,200 + dollars.

Pureform wrote:Well i joined the CMP forum and i noticed the Garand collectors are the opposite from the mosin collectors... They want everything new and refurbished... They even talk about how they throw away stock repairs that have some nice characters like artwork and put new CMP wood... They repark all the parts also... The newer unissued look the better =/

Are you really going to stereotype all of the folks on the CMP forum in such a manner? I would beg to differ. I am a fairly active active member of the CMP forum, I have several M1's as well as many other U.S. arms. I dont recall ever having the desire to repark any metal or strip and refinish a stock to like new condition. None of my rifles have a new look and several are just as they left the arsenal after being refurbished. Seems strangely similar to Mosin collecting if you ask me. There are some that strive to make a corrected rifle, but for the most part the folks I know on the forum simply clean up their pieces of U.S. history and go enjoy them at the range. I think you have to look at what you are purchasing from the CMP. These rifles are all returns from other countries or are from surplus storage here in the U.S. They have all been through at least one rearsenal. They are typically complete mixmasters and go through a checkup at the CMP prior to being sold . During this checkup it is likely that parts will be replaced if needed. The CMP is a marksmanship program. Their mission is to get people shooting. They sell rifles that are ready to shoot. There are no "bring back" Garands... There are many different genres in the milsurp collecting community and they all have their own version of what collecting means. I have a very diverse collection and I try to follow the norm for each genre that I have examples from. Just because the Mosin collecting community acts a specific way doesn't mean the other genres must follow suit. I wouldn't be so quick to judge...

By the way, here is my newest Garand. It is a total mixmaster , rearsenaled, unrefinished , non reparked M1D.. And I shoot it . Are you saying this isnt a collectible ?

Sweet rifle Jim! You have a full pic post of that one!? Hubba hubba!

My brother is one of those Garand and .30 carbine "collectors." He searches for the "most correct" parts to swap out on his guns, and he can't believe that I would not do the same on the Mosins.

To him, "correctness" as when it came off the assembly line,is king and making it "correct" is the right thing to do.....

Wow, a lot of misinformation in this thread.

Most Garands have had their parts swapped and swapped out again through various arsenal refurbs. That, and buying one from CMP means that the rifle is a mix-match of parts since they assemble rifles from parts bins. Especially, if you buy a CMP special where they clean the parts en mass, repark them, and then put the rifle back together with new wood.

Unlike Mosins that can be had that are numbers matching and have been untouched for decades, that's simply not the case with Garands.

As to the stocks, these too are not original to the rifle so there's more of a acceptability of restoring an old stock or marrying the rifle to new wood. If you buy a Garand with a refurbed stock and don't like it buy a USGI stock and swap it out.

CMP reparks parts (their CMP specials have reparked parts) and that's OK, but it's no OK for someone else to do it? BS.

The only way you get an as last issued Garand is one of the Korean imports, and even then it's as last issued in the 1950's with lots of swapped and updated parts. If it's a rifle for competition shooting you want then I recommend the CMP rifle, for history and just collecting then the Korean ones do fine. You may get a good shooter from the imports, but it's a crapshoot, you will get one from the CMP. Just remember what it is you are buying and why. Also keep in mind that CMP is not the only company out there building Garands, Fulton armory, Springfield sporters, and such do it also. They will build one to order. Again, that option is for competition shooters and very expensive. I have several DCM Garands, these were issued from US arsenals in the 1960's, so far as I know they just inspected them and you got what the State guard would have gotten. A good to go rifle that met basic infantry rifle spec. Today CMP is working with foreign bringhomes, these rifles can be well worn, and improperly maintained, they have to do a lot more to get them to spec than US armorers of the 60's who were giving you a Garand right out of a US armory. The CMP's rifles are intended as marksmanship training tool's, they can't give you a worn out collectors piece and still fulfill their mission. History and collecting are not their mission.

I've been a member of the CMP forums for five years or so, and it reminds me of one of the 1911 forums with some of the snobbery. I rarely post in threads there, but use the classifieds from time to time. There's a quite a few good guys on there, but the high browed loud mouths are the ones who do most of the talking. If you're selling something decent then it's junk in their eyes and not worth half of what you're asking, but if they're selling something it's worth double the going price...

There's quite a bit of good information on the CMP forums, but you have to weed through a lot of chaff to get to it. My point of view is that they're more into the "correcting" than "collecting" as they're just trying to get the most out of their CMP Garands when they flip them.

It's been my understanding that M1 Garands especially WW2 era were a mix of parts (manufacturers) anyway since there were so many different Gov. contractors making those parts they assembled them with so what exactly are they making them "correct" too?

The Garand production did not mirror the M1 carbine way of doing things. M1 rifles were only produced by two manufacturers during the war, Springfield Arsenal and Winchester. Both companys were well situated to produce the entire rifle in house, there may have been some parts outsourcing, but I have not seen that on my rifles until you get to the International Harvester Garand of the Korean war era. Line materials company barrel and HRA bolt, I had that rifle two years before I realized these parts were correct for IHC, and in fact I had a fully "as issued" rifle. The M1 carbine on the other hand was produced by Winchester and 8 sub contractors who relied on even more sub contractors for parts. It can be a nightmare decoding what is swapped and original on a carbine. The Garand on the other hand will have the makers initials stamped on all the primary parts. SA, WRA, HRA, and IHC

Junk Yard Dog wrote:The Garand production did not mirror the M1 carbine way of doing things. M1 rifles were only produced by two manufacturers during the war, Springfield Arsenal and Winchester. Both companys were well situated to produce the entire rifle in house, there may have been some parts outsourcing, but I have not seen that on my rifles until you get to the International Harvester Garand of the Korean war era. Line materials company barrel and HRA bolt, I had that rifle two years before I realized these parts were correct for IHC, and in fact I had a fully "as issued" rifle. The M1 carbine on the other hand was produced by Winchester and 8 sub contractors who relied on even more sub contractors for parts. It can be a nightmare decoding what is swapped and original on a carbine. The Garand on the other hand will have the makers initials stamped on all the primary parts. SA, WRA, HRA, and IHC

Ok I guess it was the M1 Carbine I was thinking of. I can't keep them straight sometimes.

Must be a different crowd over there now. In the past everybody wanted the original wood stocks, not the new ones. Nobody liked the orangish-colored birch stock which they all called the "pumpkin stock". I own five M1 Garands. My very first one was one of the orangish "pumpkin" stocks with almost new metal parts. It's my favorite Garand - even more so than my WWII dated receivers. Everybody's different, I suppose.

Junk Yard Dog wrote:They are shooters, not collectors, collectors would pay extra for the stock repairs. Stock repairs would be from the various allies we gave Garand's to, Uncle would just replace a damaged stock with a new one. Uncle had money.

"Had" being the key word. Imagine what kind of Eden we would've been in today if we had just paid for biscuit repairs and jointing stocks!