MAS 36- why so little interest?

[JER]

Tried to sell this one for modest $$$. No dice, and a little research found really zero interest in these "interesting" guns...

[Junk Yard Dog]

Nobody is that interested in their first use, the French military disaster of 1940, and even less in the series of military disasters that followed WW2 in Africa and Indochina. Shame, but it just doesn't resonate with some collectors like the Mosin, or Garand will. At least the Lebel's and Berthiers have WW1 going for them and prices have risen in recent years from nothing to $300-$400.

[desdem12]

I have interest in them. I had to sacrifice the one I had earlier. I think their price is out of whack. What was your selling price? I had absolutely no trouble selling mine

[Jbob]

Beautiful rifle, I've never seen a real one myself. Not worn much to have a counter bore but I guess that's part of the rebuild process.
I've not seen it offered here on the forum for sale or it would probably be gone.

[bunkysdad]

That is correct. Do you still have it? The lack of affordable ammo and the lower numbers of these available makes them a mostly collector rifle.

[SA1911a1]

I have wondered the same thing. It may be one of those firearms, like the Nagant, that is hard to give away one day, and sought as the holy grail the next. If the French army ever wins a war, the interest in their weapons may grow......

[Casador308]

I know what you mean by "no interest"" because they have never interested me! Having said that, I remember when I could have said the same thing about Jap Arisaka's, I remember when you could buy one for $50-$100 and I'm talking a complete nice rifle with mum and aircraft sights, sometimes even a sling. Then I also remember no one wanted anything with import marks. I think there are certain guns that will never be very much sought after or "sexy" as some will call them, but I think as time go's on and things continue to dry up there might be a change, The French Mas certainly have their place in history. Your rifle looks great, you should hold on to it, you might regret letting it go.....

[Greasemonkey]

Nice example

It's few and far between, but there is interest in them. One thing I think doesn't help, it's an unusual caliber, 7.5x54 French ammo is not usually readily found at the corner shop. The bolt is shaped strangely, yet once one is broken in, it's a quick smooth action. The French have always faulted for their performance on the field, these guys didn't just drop and run by any means, as was explained to me by one French historian/collector:

The battle of France has been poorly reported, The French army lost, big time, but it didn't give up the fight easily. The average German losses (dead & wounded) from May 10 to June 4 were around 2400 men per day, and from June 5 to June 25, it went up to 4900 per day against a French Army that had lost more than half of its armor and artillery and the British had gone home.


Comparing the battle of France with the well known battle of Verdun 1916 where the total losses were 700.000 killed/wounded/missing (360.000 French, 340.000 German) in 10 month or 70.000 average a month, the battle of France from May 10th to June 25th 1940 tallied 502.000 losses in 45 days, the battle of France 1940 was four time bloodier than Verdun 1916.


A few facts:
- The French lost 92.000 dead and 250.000 wounded in 7 weeks
- The Germans lost 49.000 dead and 110.000 wounded in 7 weeks
- The British lost 3.700 dead and 13.600 wounded in 3 weeks
- The Belgians lost 7.500 dead and 15.900 dead in 3 weeks
- The Dutch lost 2.900 dead and 6.900 wounded in 1 week

- The French lost 2.500 tanks and 900 planes
- The Germans lost 1.800 tanks and 1.400 planes
- The British lost 437 tanks and 600 planes

The largest tank battle of WWII before Kursk happened from May 12 to 14 in Belgium at Hannut where 380 French tanks (2e & 3e DLM) stopped the 680 tanks strong 16th Panzerkorps (General Hoepner) and the Germans lost that battle with twice as many tanks destroyed as the French (most of the French heavy tanks being destroyed there were by the Luftwaffe).

During the crossing of the Meuse river, in the Ardennes, the village of Stonne changed hands 17 times in 48 hours.

As a comparison, in 1941, from end of June to November, the Germans daily losses in Russia were around 3800 men per day while facing a Russian army four time larger than the French army of 1940.


Personally, I like them and I have a few myself

[gurn]

Great info GM Good looking MAS JER. When I bought my 10 MAS-36s I bought them as sleepers. They have certainly gone up in value and I feel in time like all surplus weapons they will be more interest. You ought to hang on to it if you can as nice as it is.

[zaitsev44]

I find them very interesting. I find the more uncommon WWII rifles fascinating. I would have one if some sorry SOB at UPS wouldn't had stolen it from the hub... I had been hunting for one for a while.

[Ironnewt]

As to ammunition, it is available if you look. Reloading can be done with dedicated dies or by tweaking/adjusting dies for the Swiss GP11

[SA1911a1]

Nice example

It's few and far between, but there is interest in them. One thing I think doesn't help, it's an unusual caliber, 7.5x54 French ammo is not usually readily found at the corner shop. The bolt is shaped strangely, yet once one is broken in, it's a quick smooth action. The French have always faulted for their performance on the field, these guys didn't just drop and run by any means, as was explained to me by one French historian/collector:

The battle of France has been poorly reported, The French army lost, big time, but it didn't give up the fight easily. The average German losses (dead & wounded) from May 10 to June 4 were around 2400 men per day, and from June 5 to June 25, it went up to 4900 per day against a French Army that had lost more than half of its armor and artillery and the British had gone home.


Comparing the battle of France with the well known battle of Verdun 1916 where the total losses were 700.000 killed/wounded/missing (360.000 French, 340.000 German) in 10 month or 70.000 average a month, the battle of France from May 10th to June 25th 1940 tallied 502.000 losses in 45 days, the battle of France 1940 was four time bloodier than Verdun 1916.


A few facts:
- The French lost 92.000 dead and 250.000 wounded in 7 weeks
- The Germans lost 49.000 dead and 110.000 wounded in 7 weeks
- The British lost 3.700 dead and 13.600 wounded in 3 weeks
- The Belgians lost 7.500 dead and 15.900 dead in 3 weeks
- The Dutch lost 2.900 dead and 6.900 wounded in 1 week

- The French lost 2.500 tanks and 900 planes
- The Germans lost 1.800 tanks and 1.400 planes
- The British lost 437 tanks and 600 planes

The largest tank battle of WWII before Kursk happened from May 12 to 14 in Belgium at Hannut where 380 French tanks (2e & 3e DLM) stopped the 680 tanks strong 16th Panzerkorps (General Hoepner) and the Germans lost that battle with twice as many tanks destroyed as the French (most of the French heavy tanks being destroyed there were by the Luftwaffe).

During the crossing of the Meuse river, in the Ardennes, the village of Stonne changed hands 17 times in 48 hours.

As a comparison, in 1941, from end of June to November, the Germans daily losses in Russia were around 3800 men per day while facing a Russian army four time larger than the French army of 1940.


Personally, I like them and I have a few myself

The statistics are interesting, but the bottom line is that after the shooting stopped the Germans occupied the French capital controlled the whole republic. The French problem was one of grand strategy that was flawed; they depended on the famous "Imaginary Line" to defend their people in an age of a three dimensional warfare of fire and movement. They were spanked like a red-headed stepchild, and have pouted ever since.

[catcracker]

There may be more interest soon. Military Surplus magazine just did an article about this rifle. I found it interesting enough to put one on my shopping list. It's still not a priority. But I found them interesting.
Someone posted if you are still selling. That makes two of us at least that want to know the answer to that question.
You asked for interest. I think your post has generated some.
Cat

[JER]

I feel I should add that, I knew would be guys here on the Forum that had interest in the MAS 36. I meant there seems to be little interest in the collecting world at large. I believe the ones that have their original blueing are fairly scarce(?) Do I see one or two in your picture, gurn?

[gurn]

Original black paint, yes.

[Oldvetteman]

They don't interest me because they are clunky, goofy looking, and practically un-shootable because of ammo scarcity. Just my opinion, of course.

[Pip6214]

I finally picked me up a MAS36 and can finally fire the 90rds of surplus that I've been sitting on. They came off AA52 belts and would only fire the second time around after my MAS 49/56 made a pretty good dent in the primer. So far it's a bit odd in the hands, bolt and safety are a bit weird and the location of the finger grooves doesn't feel right. I find it comfortable to hold it out past the barrel bands/swing swivel. The perception of french firearms since WW2 had probably killed it's overall interst more than anything.

[Fulgrim]

I have been looking to to add a pre war MAS 36 to my collection. I came across one locally that is pre war rifle that has been refurbished. The bolt and receiver match but the trigger guard and floor plate do not match. Is this common for a pre war made rifle that was refurbished? Also do you guys have a ball park on the pricing these are going for these days. Information on these rifles are not as common as other rifles.

The one I'm looking at locally from pictures looks like a good condition refurb. But the seller is only willing to go down to $ 340. Which seems just a little high to me. But I'm not really certain because I do not see these for sale too often.

[rayjd2]

The interest exists within us all, the rifle seems scarce on the market these days. I'd love one, and a MAS 49, but I'm still beating myself up over not getting a Garand. Oh well, it'll come.

[mebailj]

Reloading brass can be purchased from Graff and Sons. It's Privi-Partisan, $60.00/100, but it's good brass. Lee makes dies, and any .308 caliber bullet will work. The French Army as well as the Soviet Army in 1941 bled out Hitler's young warriors in 1940 and 1941, respectively, and at the beginning of 1942, the German Army was beginning to hurt for available quality fighting men. If the French had had more leaders like Charles de Gaulle, perhaps they would have fought much harder. Leadership was lacking, and it showed. De Gaulle was a pompous jerk sometimes, but he understood the idea of tank battles. My mother lived near Paris, saw it all, fed retreating soldiers what food they had. She said the soldiers wanted to stand and fight, they just were leaderless for the most part. But, that's all history and what might have been. Reminds me of Saigon in 1975 and Lately Iraq. Get out, give up, and come what may.