The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

Mrs. Santa gave me a 120 round Range Pack of the Red Army Standard ammo for Christmas and we had our first chance to shoot yesterday.

Here is my question. Can or does the Laquer coating on the steel case cause an oversize condition in the Chamber? I ask because we shot Mrs. and my T53's as well as my M44 with no problems with surplus Copper washed steel case ammo. Bolts all cycle fine and always have since we have owned these guys. But with the Red Army S. ammo, I got off 1 shot and the Bolt stuck closed, Mrs. fired twice and her Bolt stuck and we had the same problem with the M44. ONLY with the Red Army Standard ammo.

Any thoughts, comments appreciated.

The coating warms up and glues itself to the chamber walls, this is mostly if there is already something stuck on the chamber walls. You need to sanitize that chamber to get rid of -STICKY BOLT- do a forum search for that term and you will turn up solutions on how to deal with it. Very common Mosin issue.

Thanks JYD. I'm familiar with the Sticky Bolt issue, but since we had never had a problem with the Surplus ammo I didn't think that would fix this. What you said makes sense, I'll clean the chambers and see what we get. Thanks!!

I had the same problem with lacquer coated steel case, especially when I first got some of my first M91/30 rifles. I have long avoided it. However, I have one rifle that shoots heavy bullets really well and was unable to find any surplus heavy ball. Recently, I bought about 150 rounds of Brown Bear 174 grain FMJ and it shot really nice in the '33 Izhevsk M91/30. I had no bolt problems at all with the Brown Bear. It is now the only lacquer coat case ammo I will buy. Everything else I shoot is copper washed steel case, including some new Novosibirsk (LVE) light ball.

So this is modern production ammo with a polymer coating? What is the purpose if the polymer coating? And what is the reason to use this over other modern production ammo or surplus? Just trying to learn...

JayPoc wrote:So this is modern production ammo with a polymer coating? What is the purpose if the polymer coating? And what is the reason to use this over other modern production ammo or surplus? Just trying to learn...

It is to keep it from rusting.

JayPoc wrote:So this is modern production ammo with a polymer coating? What is the purpose if the polymer coating? And what is the reason to use this over other modern production ammo or surplus? Just trying to learn...

I don't advocate not using surplus. In fact, just the opposite. The surplus Russian or Bulgarian with copper-wash steel cases is exactly what the rifles were designed to shoot. To be honest, I have no idea what the lacquer or polymer coated case is for on the new production 7.62x54r ammunition. I assume it is to preserve the steel case and keep it from rusting or oxidizing. The lacquer coated steel case 7.62x39 ammo I shoot in the SKS or AK seems to be some of the smoothest feeding ammo I have. Then again, those rifles have chrome-lined chambers that seem to better tolerate the polymer or lacquer coat. I think it serves no purpose in 7.62x54r in terms of feeding and my opinion is that it simply gums up the works in a Mosin Nagant.

It sure has given me a fit in 8mm Mauser when fired in my Hakim. It got hot, then got stuck, then I got pissed, then I did a good chamber clean and slowed down my rate of fire, so when I started shooting some Chechen ammo in my Mosins with this coating I was already prepared. Funny thing is some rifles like it better than others. My M39 loves the brown ammo.

I remember this Red Army stuff that I think Century had or had sold to Classic or AIM. Sold as non corrosive, it eventually turned out to be corrosive and it was all recalled. Got the notice from the retailer but the refund from Century I believe. I have not seen the Red Army 54r ammo since then.

I have, and it is still sold as non-corrosive. It also has a lead core bullet which makes it range safe for those ranges that forbid steel core.

I have used Brown Bear coated rounds in several rifles with no problems.

Red Army Standard Ammo, Hmm I almost have a problem with even saying it? Really think about it a bit. If they even had something like that how would we have all the different varieties of surplus we have these days? I rarely shoot or even look twice at any surplus that is not brass cased for a Mosin. Yet it is entirely possible to own and shoot certain Mosins on just about any kind of ammo you can find for any price. The variety of standards in Soviet anything seems to be endless so I just act accordingly and only use the more standard and forgiving of "Soviet Standards" brass cased ammo and it seems to soldier through all the variances Soviet things seem to have.

If you have a problem ammo I will offer things I have learned over the years to combat feed and extraction problems. I never chamber a round till I am ready to fire and I always extract the fired round immediately after it is gone. If I really have a problem ammo right before I go to the range I slap on a good pair of rubber gloves and head outside the shop and rub down each and every round I intend to shoot with a good paint solvent of some kind. When you get a problem ammo and know about it don't fall for the thought that maybe the next batch of it will be OK because (trust me here) it will not be and even if it is you will not have to wonder about it.

My thoughts are stay away from steel cased ammo, anything from East Germany that comes in a blue card board box, older batches of Winchester marked ammo the B&E made, and frankly it has been so long since I have had feed problems I can't off the top of my head remember any more, Sorry! Good Luck and Good Shooting. Bill