Better 1914 dragoon pics

[mitch5690]

I posted yesturday because i was excited. It was raining and i could take better pics in natural light but here is a few

[redspoon]

Oh yeah it really pops in those pics Nice sling have you Id it?

[mitch5690]

I actuLly don't have a clue in the sling, it's a real light tan and really soft. Maybe someone here knows

[TulaTom]

Looks great! What a nice find.

[davesstuff1]

[Sgt lamb]

i think the slings a Civil guard sling used as a much cheaper sling than the 3 piece 28/30 sling

[Junk Yard Dog]

Nice, four souls accounted for, or is each mark 1, or 10, or 100? Score keeping, you had to have a real hate going on to be doing that.

[zeebill]

Nice, four souls accounted for, or is each mark 1, or 10, or 100? Score keeping, you had to have a real hate going on to be doing that.

Or is it more than likely where it bounced around in a rack in the back of a truck? I don't have the imagination most of you have I am afraid.

The sling I would say is Finn I have many similar to that which came on Finnish rifles over the years. The X stitching has been ID'd as a Finnish practice. I bought a whole box of those at Knob Creek many years ago with both brass and silver oval buckles for $3 apiece or so. I forget what the guy had them ID'd as but I do know he wasn't calling them Finnish! I do remember they were absolutely filthy and I dang near screwed up the washer cleaning them. I have sold a lot of Finnish rifles over the years with them on.

The finish is interesting and appears to have been maybe messed with a bit. Looking at online pictures and saying that is awful tough to be 100% right though.

The handguard has some in the field maybe dress up work done to it. The KAB on the sight blade can and was traded around from rifle to rifle often. I have several obviously Balkan rifles which were KAB marked sight bladed somewhere along the line. The solid Dragoon bands are available and will fit on a normal Mosin stock.

Mitch I realize I am getting real negative about the rifle but I am really just trying to make people realize that what you see is not always what you get and you have to make decisions that are not always clear cut and simple to make. Now all that negative stuff and I have to admit and repeat I would have bought it too. The sling too should be fine on there. Matter of fact I really like the feel of those slings when shooting a rifle with one in place at the range. Bill

[mitch5690]

Not one to shy away from constructive critisim, can i ask you what makes you think the stock was messed with zeebill?

[mitch5690]

also the stock has a 1916 cartouche date on it thats visible so its not a reg 91/30 stock

[zeebill]

The picture showing the butt plate for one shows the exposed grain is turned indicating that it has been at least wiped down with something. The difference in the colors between the two sets of pictures as far as color frankly has me buffaloed. This is why I don't like judging things online as far as finish. As to the stock I have a 1916 refurbished 91/30 in a stamped 1916 stock so that proves nothing really. I know you had to grab a hold of this or it would be gone in a minute these days but really we all kind of take inferences from what we see and run with it. I had a nice sort of 91/30 about a year ago with a blade front sight and it was pretty cheap I guess and the fellow I sold it to said immediately after he bought it that I was dumb for selling him a dragoon so cheap at $225 if I remember right. I asked if he was happy and he said yes and I said so was I. Finn rifles can have almost any modifications and be excepted as legitimate examples of what they should be. There really I are very few ways to find an answer about a Finn rifle being messed with or not. Your rifle is nice and I would have bought it but we have no real way to know if it is legit or not for sure. I have seen some doozers that people paid high prices for and I know (again I really should say suspect because I have no real way of knowing for sure) were fantasy rifles someone put together with great craftsmanship and knowledge. It is unfortunate these things happen and believe me I own a few I highly suspect but do not know for sure.

We are basically trapped by our own wants and needs to believe we have the real things. Hope you realize I am really nitpicking you to make a point so maybe we all think a bit before we go for things these days. Like I said if that rifle was offered to me I would have gone for it but with less fervor than you because I have 4 or 5 Dragoons already, but I think none that early? Your postion in collecting makes for a lot of difference in attitude toward things I am finding. Bill

[zeebill]

Man Mitch I did one lousy job of explaining the finish question you asked, sorry about that! Now looking at the picture I noted with the butt plate. Notice how the grain is raised up? That means it could have been stripped and there by the grain was raised. Then it was wiped at an angle and dried that way indicating it was covered with something that made the grain take a curved set. All the cuts and digs in the stock are close or darker than the over all color of the wood showing me they are filled with a finish or oil of some sort. Even the slice marks on the stock are almost equal in color to the rest of the stock, while this gives a look many people like it shows me work has been done to it.

Now all this commentary is coming from a guy who has bought more than a few polyed up stocks in my day so I guess that it adds up to a grain of salt huh? I am like many others here if I see something I really like and it has possible issues I may still buy it even with the issues. There is no such thing as the perfect Milsurp as most of them have been used hard. You mgot ,to ,get what you see and like I said I would have bought that rifle with a few second thoughts because of what I already own but that is indeed a nice rifle. Bill

[mitch5690]

Okay I can see what your saying. I just look at it next to a few of my other mosins and the finnish just seems to fit. But maybe. I guess I'll have to show it to a few of the more seasoned local collectors and see what they say as a close up opinion. Also quit a bit of the dings and scratches are lighter than the wood and not filled in. I just don't really focus on any if them. I'll take a few pics of just the stock tommarrow it's it's not raining.

[Alsky]

Mitch you hunted up another winner. Beautiful rifle. Based on the sharp corners of that one finger groove I doubt that the wood was refinished too many times. I have seen a number of the KAZ marked rear sights on Finnish rifles. The sling is a ward time expedient M28 CG sling. I can't wait to see this one up close and personal.

[qz2026]

WHoa!!!! What a beauty. Super rifle

[shmlnaaa]

Interesting rifle. Are there any markings on the right side of the butt?

[Ironnewt]

Mitch, I am happy you were able to get that one. Glad to contribute to the cause. (Mitch sold me some items to help finance this purchase)

[mitch5690]

Glade everyone ended up happy in that deal ironnewt. And shmlnaaa there's a 1916 dated cartouche, there's a pic in the original post.