Question for you shooters

[zeebill]

Almost all of the un-refurbed Mosins I encounter have a distinct gouge or line on the ramp for the trigger. What causes that or why is it done purposely? I have noticed when I dress or stone that ridge away the trigger gets much lighter and for the most they all still pass the bounce test. Warning some have not and that makes me wonder if I am destroying something that was meant to be there or if it is just taking some of the normal wear away and in that way improving the trigger break and effort. If this would be considered modifying the rifle forget I ever said this and remove the question. I am not sure where this would lay on that subject so if necessary crucify me if I deserve it. Bill

[desdem12]

Are we talkin Balkans finns and all non refurbed or just one supposed country? I think if it is all including finns then maybe wear. If just one entity then purposefull. I would have to look at my finn captures to see but terribly busy right now.

[zeebill]

Almost all of the un-refurbed Mosins I encounter have a distinct gouge or line on the ramp for the trigger. What causes that or why is it done purposely? I have noticed when I dress or stone that ridge away the trigger gets much lighter and for the most they all still pass the bounce test. Warning some have not and that makes me wonder if I am destroying something that was meant to be there or if it is just taking some of the normal wear away and in that way improving the trigger break and effort. If this would be considered modifying the rifle forget I ever said this and remove the question. I am not sure where this would lay on that subject so if necessary crucify me if I deserve it. Bill

Almost all of the un-refurbed Mosins with no special groups cited. I am suspecting greatly it occurs naturally from wear and indeed I have seen it on some of my refurbs now that I am looking at the few I have. All I know is if your repair or remove it and check with the bounce test after doing it. The trigger breaks a great deal better and for the most part is much nicer to shoot to me. Any other questions about it? Bill

[desdem12]

Not having any other non refurbed cept for finns I was curious. I would like to get a few rode hard Balkans for the collection.

[zeebill]

Not having any other non refurbed cept for finns I was curious. I would like to get a few rode hard Balkans for the collection.

I could kick my dumb butt a thousand times for not buying everyone of them I could have at $50 or so they were when they first came in but that is water over the dam I guess. My thought was there will be better ones later on! Yeah sure you old dummy you out smarted yourself again! I have had many of the Balkans rifles over the years but not a lot of them shot well so they went down the road. Only one I had that shot right is still out in the safe and gets a bit of exercise once in awhile but with as well worn as it is I try and keep the wear down on it. Bill

[qz2026]

I've got a few that were rode hard with so-so bores and a few others that look rode hard but have pristine bores. 'Bout ready to shoot a couple of them that I picked up last winter (Is winter really over? Up here it is questionable). Anyway, do you have pictures of the issue you are talking about? I'm a little confused as to what you mean.

[zeebill]

Sorry no pictures. Let's see the top end of the trigger has a little ramp on it and just about every rifle that is not a refurb has a little like line or maybe a dig in it. I was wondering if that serves any purpose or is a result of wear or what? That any better? I have been stoning or sanding that away and the trigger pulls get better and they still seem to pass the bump test for safety. I am really just wondering if that is there for a purpose or just the result of wear and tear. Hope that helps a bit. Bill

[mogunner]

On the VERY top of the trigger, that little "ramp" is for the bolt to slide over, then the front edge of it catches the bolt so that it won't slide back out, you have to pull the trigger in order to drop the front of the ramp far enough for the bolt to slide out past it.

[MarksmanTim]

I think bill is referring to the flat part of the trigger spring, not the sear part.

Bill,

Just the other day I had my M39 apart to look at the trigger and at least get it cleaned and polished. I do believe there were 1 or 2 marks going across it. They mostly cleaned up but the deepest part. The trigger pull is much smoother and "exact" (same every time). I don't think I made it any lighter.

[Darryl]

.

[mogunner]

I think bill is referring to the flat part of the trigger spring, not the sear part.

I was hoping that he was, just seeking clarification. I polish the sear spring where the trigger rides on it and also square the sear itself as well as the bottom of the cocking piece where the sear contacts it. All of mine have trigger pulls right at 3 1/2-4 lbs just from that.

[MarksmanTim]

I think bill is referring to the flat part of the trigger spring, not the sear part.

I was hoping that he was, just seeking clarification. I polish the sear spring where the trigger rides on it and also square the sear itself as well as the bottom of the cocking piece where the sear contacts it. All of mine have trigger pulls right at 3 1/2-4 lbs just from that.

That's basically the same approach I take. I start by working on one piece at a time, making the "change" so to speak and then re-installing to see the effect (if any). I try not to do much to the sear and cocking piece other than polish up some imperfections, always keeping note of how much contact depth I have between the pieces and making sure there is still a good positive angle. I usually have good success with slightly lightening the pull, but mostly making it smoother. I don't have many that I even work on, but the ones I like to shoot a lot get a little tweak.

I have this really cool "cloth paper" that I believe is diamond impregnated, in 4 different grits. Follow the 4 grits, taking only a few minutes with each, and you can end up with a mirror polish if desired. I never take it that far, but just wanted to give an idea of the effectiveness of the paper. I use a small piece of stainless steel as the sanding block so to speak. I've only used something coarse on a spare trigger spring to test how to lighten it.

For people reading this thread: As noted by others, please do not attempt this work unless you know what you are doing! I almost hesitate to post this, and I won't post anything further details wise.

Last words of advice. If you do ANYTHING, including a light polish, be sure to do a bump test to make sure the cocked action stays that way until you pull the trigger. Make sure the firearm is unloaded!!!!

[MarksmanTim]

.

What is labeled as the ramp is really the sear. The back side of that is what contacts the cocking piece, which on other designs is usually a part of a trigger.

[Darryl]

.

trigger4.jpg

I should have labeled it as "sear", but I think this is the area Bill is referring to as "ramp"

trigger.jpg

[zeebill]

I think bill is referring to the flat part of the trigger spring, not the sear part.

I was hoping that he was, just seeking clarification. I polish the sear spring where the trigger rides on it and also square the sear itself as well as the bottom of the cocking piece where the sear contacts it. All of mine have trigger pulls right at 3 1/2-4 lbs just from that.

That's basically the same approach I take. I start by working on one piece at a time, making the "change" so to speak and then re-installing to see the effect (if any). I try not to do much to the sear and cocking piece other than polish up some imperfections, always keeping note of how much contact depth I have between the pieces and making sure there is still a good positive angle. I usually have good success with slightly lightening the pull, but mostly making it smoother. I don't have many that I even work on, but the ones I like to shoot a lot get a little tweak.

I have this really cool "cloth paper" that I believe is diamond impregnated, in 4 different grits. Follow the 4 grits, taking only a few minutes with each, and you can end up with a mirror polish if desired. I never take it that far, but just wanted to give an idea of the effectiveness of the paper. I use a small piece of stainless steel as the sanding block so to speak. I've only used something coarse on a spare trigger spring to test how to lighten it.

For people reading this thread: As noted by others, please do not attempt this work unless you know what you are doing! I almost hesitate to post this, and I won't post anything further details wise.

Last words of advice. If you do ANYTHING, including a light polish, be sure to do a bump test to make sure the cocked action stays that way until you pull the trigger. Make sure the firearm is unloaded!!!!

Yeah I really hesitated to post this for the above reasons and I also think my reasons for doing what I have done are very weak in that I am repairing or making safer and not permanently modifying. I have understood what polishing or stoning the sear does for years and really I have not done it for years either. What I am talking about is not the sear and is actually the trigger ramp. Yeah I know you are all saying that has nothing to do with trigger release but I have after getting cut on a sharp edge and actually drawing blood (dang blood thinners!) been smoothing and removing the burrs and part of that line that seems to form on there. I just did it to keep from bleeding to death alone out in the shop (graphic overstatement I know) but it seems to be making the trigger release smoother and I have no idea why being as far as I know it has nothing to do with that. I have a couple of right from the importer rifles in the collection where the trigger ramp was made graphically slimmer and there fore the contact patch is lowered. They are all Finnish rifles and of course had nice triggers and passed the bump test easily. I never thought about the slimmer trigger ramp at all till the cut and bleed episode and just sort of filed it with the those sneaky and inventive Finns file. Sorting thoughts one night listening to classic rock in the shop I just sort of put the thoughts together and wondered what others were thinking. Hence the post and the question. It makes no sense to me to be honest and I have no answer. I knew this would create consternation but it has been bugging me for the better part of two months since I did a sporter rebuild for a buddy and got my cuts. Bill

[p-t-max]

Sorry, can someone explain what the "bump test" is?

[desdem12]

The bump test is to cock the rifle on an EMPTY chamber and then take a pad or rug or what have you and "bump" the butt of the rifle on it to see if it fires without trigger pull. Do that a few times to see if it fires and if not you should be fine. If it does fire then a new set of parts is in order. If you attempt squaring and polishing make sure you know what you are doing as it can make the rifle very dangerous

[jones0430]

And there you have a usable definition of a "hair trigger".

[polymerase2]

It is really important when you get a Mosin to do a full detail cleaning. I have found two loose sear screws. Plus someone may have shimmed the sear spring to get a lighter pull. The results would be really bad.
Speaking of bad, has anyone ever slipped putting a Mosin bolt on safe. Will it fire? Could it fire? The sear is still up but i wonder if that will work.

[zeebill]

It is really important when you get a Mosin to do a full detail cleaning. I have found two loose sear screws. Plus someone may have shimmed the sear spring to get a lighter pull. The results would be really bad.
Speaking of bad, has anyone ever slipped putting a Mosin bolt on safe. Will it fire? Could it fire? The sear is still up but i wonder if that will work.

No I have never used or counted on the safety to be honest my old hands as a result of nerve damage while racing cannot pull the safety on anymore. I never chamber a round unless it is aimed down range and I am ready to shoot at something. Even back a few years ago when I was still hunting I never did chamber a round till I was ready to shoot. You ask a good question but I do not know the answer. Bill