The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

I order some Sellier soft points today. I wanted to get some rounds through my new gun before I hunt with it so I went to the local Pawn Shop and picked up some surplus. I got two boxes...no identification on the box. The guy there said they were 174 gr. It is steel cased FMJs. The stamp on the case is 21 on the top and 82 on the bottom. Can you tell me anything about these rounds. He also told me it was corrosive and when I am done shooting to spray windex down the barrel...????

21 is Hungarian. The 82 is the year. Definitely corrosive.

That is simplified but yes. Actually get a cleaning rod and patch soaked with Windex and swab the barrel. This washes out or neutralizes the salt that is in the surplus ammo. The salts actually come from the primer. Not sure what the origin of that ammo is without looking it up. Follow up with regular cleaning and oiling to protect against rust and dont forget to clean the bolt.

Ya gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?~ Josey Wales

As long as I clean the gun it won't be harmed will it?

Windex is a quick wash usually done right after shooting. When you get it home, run a tea pot full of boiling water down the chamber and barrel. the primer has corrosive salts in it and the windex and boiling water will desolve them. Then follow up with a good cleaning with Hoppes or a good cleaner.

No, it won't hurt it at all.

deputy83 wrote:As long as I clean the gun it won't be harmed will it?

I've been shooting corrosive surplus in four different guns for over a year. I clean on the range with Hoppes #9 and CLP then do some follow up at home. Haven't had any problems. This is the stuff the Russians went to war with. As long as they kept their guns clean in the field or immediately upon coming off the front, they had no problems. Having said all of that, I'm sure there is a variety of techniques out there to protect your gun against corrosive. I would be wary of the water-based cleaners which in and of themselves can cause rust if not extracted from the barrel and chamber. If you want to use one, you might try some new stuff that Shooters Choice is selling called "Aqua Clean."
I've got some and it is not a bad bore cleaner.

Water based cleaners are what washes out the corrosive salts. Salt dissolves in water, not oil. It is the water in the windex that makes it work. Boiling water works as well.

I shot a few thousand rounds of the Hungarian stuff through at least fifty rifles while I was using it. I found it to be a bit dit dirty fouling wise, but otherwise it was accurate and sure fire ammo. I run a quart of boiling water through the chamber and down the pipe every time after I shoot, and then clean as normal with hoppes. The boiling water transfers heat to the metal as it runs through and the heat will cause any residual water to steam off, as you are then going to clean with solvents and oil there is no possibility of rust forming in the bore. Hot water washes away the salt 100% or the time, tens of thousands of rounds with corrosive primers fired through hundreds of rifle over 30 years with never a rust problem. I came up shooting black powder firearms, now there you are dealing with real corrosive residue, soap and water is what we use on the muskets, you have no idea what a mess BP fouling makes until you experience it personally

millman wrote:Water based cleaners are what washes out the corrosive salts. Salt dissolves in water, not oil. It is the water in the windex that makes it work. Boiling water works as well.

Do you use some type of rust preventive oil or CLP after the Windex? What do you recommend? Have you heard anything about this Shooters Choice Aqua Clean?

This is my procedure. There are many ways to do it, and this thread will probably end up 50 pages long and might even end in a fight , but this is what I do. I run 3 or four patches wet with windex through the bore. Then I wipe the bolt face with another windex patch. I follow the windex patches with 3 or 4 wet with WD40 to displace the water/windex. Then I follow with a thorough cleaning with Hoppes #9. I follow all of this with a patch wet with gun oil down the bore to prevent rust. I also wipe all of the metal bits with oil to prevent rust. The bolt also gets the wd40 followed with Hoppes followed with oil. The type of gun oil you use is totally up to you, but I would recommend one that doesn't dry completely. I would not recommend WD40 as a rust preventative.

BTW I don't have any experience with the product you mentioned.

I swab with windex at the range, last trip I just used a squirt bottle of water. Several patches till dry, follow up at home with Hopes 9 followed by light oil. Guns all look good. The shinier the bore the easier it cleans. I spend more time on the frosty and dark ones. I use a .30 cal brush with Hopes with them. The nooks and crannies can hold a lot of crud.
I use the boiling water at the first cleaning. I am going to try it on some of the older less shiny bores.

I agree with you that a water-based cleaner is the most sure-fire way to ensure that all the corrosive salts have been removed. Your procedure not only makes sure that the salts are out, but the WD-40 displaces all the moisture before a rust preventative treatment is applied. When I first bought my Mosin Nagants, I referenced information found on 7.62x54r.net. That forum indicated that Hoppes #9 was formulated in the early 1900's when all they had was corrosive primers. Learning from forums like this and seeing new products such as Shooters Choice Aqua Clean has me willing to amend my procedure.

Like most new shooters, I was scared of corrosive priming and chose ammo that was much more expensive, non-corrosive and only average shootability and functionality. I know now that was a mistake. These guns were made to shoot it (surplus corrosive) and at 21 cents a round, you just can't pass it up. Whatever method you use, I would say timely, immediate cleaning and periodic follow up are most important in maintaining a rust free bore and action.

tjtM38 wrote:I agree with you that a water-based cleaner is the most sure-fire way to ensure that all the corrosive salts have been removed. Your procedure not only makes sure that the salts are out, but the WD-40 displaces all the moisture before a rust preventative treatment is applied. When I first bought my Mosin Nagants, I referenced information found on 7.62x54r.net. That forum indicated that Hoppes #9 was formulated in the early 1900's when all they had was corrosive primers. Learning from forums like this and seeing new products such as Shooters Choice Aqua Clean has me willing to amend my procedure.

Like most new shooters, I was scared of corrosive priming and chose ammo that was much more expensive, non-corrosive and only average shootability and functionality. I know now that was a mistake. These guns were made to shoot it (surplus corrosive) and at 21 cents a round, you just can't pass it up. Whatever method you use, I would say timely, immediate cleaning and periodic follow up are most important in maintaining a rust free bore and action.

The reason people use windex is simply because it's water based but more importantly it's in a spray bottle and is convenient to carry to the range. That's all, not because it's windex or any other ingredients it contains. Boiling water for the reasons mentioned by the Boss is the best primary cleaner. I personally like Breakfree CLP as a secondary cleaner and finish up protectant. Personal choice on the CLP.

Actually I use the windex because my neighbor (a retired Dow chemist) told me that the ammonia in the windex lowers the ph slightly and helps to dissolve the salts better than straight water.

millman wrote:Actually I use the windex because my neighbor (a retired Dow chemist) told me that the ammonia in the windex lowers the ph slightly and helps to dissolve the salts better than straight water.

Good tidbit to know.

Thanks for the cleaning tips. Before I knew better I sprayed Brake cleaner down the barrel of my newly purchased MN. It really messed up the wood finish where i let it run down on the stock. Must be shellac.Screwed up a really nice finish. That's when I joined this forum.Ask first, even if it seems like a dumb question is what I learned the hard way. Thanks JGC

Junk Yard Dog wrote: I came up shooting black powder firearms, now there you are dealing with real corrosive residue, soap and water is what we use on the muskets, you have no idea what a mess BP fouling makes until you experience it personally

You ain't just whisting Dixie there brother,or was the "World turned upside down" when you were in?