The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

How hard is it find quality Chinese T53s? I've not seen any in reasonable condition locally. I did get one from an auction (due to arrive today) that had 3 matching numbers (only the bolt was off) and a stock is less than abysmal condition.

I've got a beautiful M44 1944 Izhevsk all matching with serial number less than 7000 and was hoping to add to the collection. There's just something about a rifle with attached bayonet...

Thoughts on quality T53s?

With T53s quality is a relative term... While I'm sure they're out there, my best T53 still doesn't look as good as my average 91/30 or M44.

Seem that all the T 53 I see at shows are beat up, I have seen a few, posted here that have been very nice and matching. Just a matter of keeping your eyes open. That was the first thing I learned here. Judi and her Mosin's

T53 quality consists of having all it's parts and the stock isn't broken. Some have exceptional bores, others not so much. Since they didn't have the benefit of a refurb process, you pretty much have to accept that these are well used warhorses and accept their character as you find them.

T53 is a curious bird. Actually, back in the day, before the glut of imports in the last years, they were somewhat uncommon. Due to import laws. Collectors are of different opinions on these. Some love the warhorse look. Some like the clean, all matching ones. Some like both. If one has the financial resources, both examples would be in the collection. I myself, at this time, only want one example of each model. I bought an old warhorse, but with an excellent bore. The stock is beat up enough that I didn't even want to shoot it. So, I bought another T53 stock on EBay, and when I go shooting I switch over to the good stock. For display and storage I keep it in the original. Warhorses still can be found for $99-$115. The all matching nice ones are hitting $250-$325 online. Since the T53 is always readily available for sale, do plenty of shopping and pick the one that speaks to you. I suspect many collectors may have 2 stocks, as there is a guy on EBay making a killing selling T53 stocks. They come with various hardware, most with cleaning rod.

I don't mind the beat-up look at all. And to me, it just makes sense that these would look the way they do.
I'm only guessing. But I would imagine that a lot of the previous owners were probably not all that thrilled to be in the Chinese military in the first place. And they probably were not all that motivated to keep them in nice condition. I have one in my collection. It's in pretty good condition as far as rifling and hardware. But the top of the stock looks like it was used to pound nails. But I love it.
I carried an M-16 for many years. The first 8 or so, I abused the heck out of them. I would throw it around, slam it in the back of the truck. Last thing on my mind was whether or not I was putting a scratch or dent in it. I was young then, fresh out of HS. (I had some maturing to do guys, so cut me some slack)
So I guess I am saying when I see these T53s in this condition, and I hold it, it just makes it seem all that more authentic.

I got a pretty nice t53. While the stock is dark in color. It's basically all in great shape. Bluing is wonderful. No pitting in the bore. Sharp lands and grooves. Bore is dark though. Everything matches but the bolt

redeuce wrote:T53 is a curious bird. Actually, back in the day, before the glut of imports in the last years, they were somewhat uncommon. Due to import laws. Collectors are of different opinions on these. Some love the warhorse look. Some like the clean, all matching ones. Some like both. If one has the financial resources, both examples would be in the collection. I myself, at this time, only want one example of each model. I bought an old warhorse, but with an excellent bore. The stock is beat up enough that I didn't even want to shoot it. So, I bought another T53 stock on EBay, and when I go shooting I switch over to the good stock. For display and storage I keep it in the original. Warhorses still can be found for $99-$115. The all matching nice ones are hitting $250-$325 online. Since the T53 is always readily available for sale, do plenty of shopping and pick the one that speaks to you. I suspect many collectors may have 2 stocks, as there is a guy on EBay making a killing selling T53 stocks. They come with various hardware, most with cleaning rod.

Something tells me you were not collecting Mosins back in the late 1980's , at that time the Chinese were flooding the US market with anything that would shoot from cheap SKS, and AK rifles, to thousands of very issued type 53's. These 53's were everywhere and sold very cheap, $20 commonly. I had one dealer I did a lot of business with simply gift me with one after he couldn't move it for $20 even after six months. Few people knew what the hell they were, or cared, and the look of them was something of a turn off for many non collectors. The first Bush administration slammed the door on Chinese military rifle imports, but before they did that shiploads of them came in. If you see a type 53 with the old style tiny import mark up by the muzzle and a very rough appearance then you have one of these earlier imports. Prior to that time you had a steady influx of them coming home with servicemen returning from Vietnam, the type 53 was one of the rifles they were legally allowed to bring home. They were provided by the Chinese communists to the North Vietnamese who then gave them to pro communist gorilla's in South Vietnam, who then lost them to US troops.

catcracker wrote:I don't mind the beat-up look at all. And to me, it just makes sense that these would look the way they do.
I'm only guessing. But I would imagine that a lot of the previous owners were probably not all that thrilled to be in the Chinese military in the first place. And they probably were not all that motivated to keep them in nice condition. I have one in my collection. It's in pretty good condition as far as rifling and hardware. But the top of the stock looks like it was used to pound nails. But I love it.
I carried an M-16 for many years. The first 8 or so, I abused the heck out of them. I would throw it around, slam it in the back of the truck. Last thing on my mind was whether or not I was putting a scratch or dent in it. I was young then, fresh out of HS. (I had some maturing to do guys, so cut me some slack)
So I guess I am saying when I see these T53s in this condition, and I hold it, it just makes it seem all that more authentic.

I don't care what you did to the plastic fantastic, your life depended on that weapon, not mine In communist countries your weapon is the property of the state, it's loss or damage could result in your death or imprisonment. You did not want to come to be standing before an NKVD agent with a damaged rifle, this was a man who had the authority to summarily execute you on the spot, and they sometimes did just that to reinforce discipline. Likely long after the regular army was finished with these rifles they ended up as reserve or training weapons , maintenance was not performed, and damage expected. That was the rifles used by the PRC, the ones we got recently from Albania and other Balkan places were simply used by people who were less supervised.

My first T-53 (I have 3) is not a looker in terms of being in unissued condition, but has the beauty only a well used war rifle can have. It's one of the better shooters I have in my modest collection, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another if I didn't have other holes I'm looking to fill.

Nice looking rifle, about 100 times less issued looking than some Omega imports I recall from back in the day

Junk Yard Dog wrote:

redeuce wrote:T53 is a curious bird. Actually, back in the day, before the glut of imports in the last years, they were somewhat uncommon. Due to import laws. Collectors are of different opinions on these. Some love the warhorse look. Some like the clean, all matching ones. Some like both. If one has the financial resources, both examples would be in the collection. I myself, at this time, only want one example of each model. I bought an old warhorse, but with an excellent bore. The stock is beat up enough that I didn't even want to shoot it. So, I bought another T53 stock on EBay, and when I go shooting I switch over to the good stock. For display and storage I keep it in the original. Warhorses still can be found for $99-$115. The all matching nice ones are hitting $250-$325 online. Since the T53 is always readily available for sale, do plenty of shopping and pick the one that speaks to you. I suspect many collectors may have 2 stocks, as there is a guy on EBay making a killing selling T53 stocks. They come with various hardware, most with cleaning rod.

Something tells me you were not collecting Mosins back in the late 1980's , at that time the Chinese were flooding the US market with anything that would shoot from cheap SKS, and AK rifles, to thousands of very issued type 53's. These 53's were everywhere and sold very cheap, $20 commonly. I had one dealer I did a lot of business with simply gift me with one after he couldn't move it for $20 even after six months. Few people knew what the hell they were, or cared, and the look of them was something of a turn off for many non collectors. The first Bush administration slammed the door on Chinese military rifle imports, but before they did that shiploads of them came in. If you see a type 53 with the old style tiny import mark up by the muzzle and a very rough appearance then you have one of these earlier imports. Prior to that time you had a steady influx of them coming home with servicemen returning from Vietnam, the type 53 was one of the rifles they were legally allowed to bring home. They were provided by the Chinese communists to the North Vietnamese who then gave them to pro communist gorilla's in South Vietnam, who then lost them to US troops.

Actually, I was around at that time . In the late eighties Omega, CIA, Navy Arms, and a couple others brought them in. Maybe some of the real rats were $25. I have a copy of a Navy Arms catalog from that time somewhere. I think they featured in that catalog SKS, M1 30 caliber, Mas, Finn M28, and the T53. The fair condition T53's were $55 and the excellent condition ones were $105. My son in law started collected big time back then. His partner was a FFL01. They later opened a firearms store together. And I remember when the door shut there was a period they were not plentiful.

I always thought the rough condition of the T53 was sort of endearing to the eye and thoughts of their usage. It sort of reeked the history of themselves a bit. Recently saw a couple of Russian M44's that were supposedly captured in Grenada and imported by CAI many years ago and they sort of mirror the average T53 in condition. One even has MDC scratched crudely in it. Have been told it stands for Ministry of Defense Cuba as Cuba and Nicaragua were the suppliers of arms for the rebels down there. These M44's have good bores like many T53's do also and they work very smoothly too. Some are even signed by people with very Spanish sounding names. No I don't have one and I could but as I have said many times I buy rifles not stories. Bill

redeuce wrote:

Junk Yard Dog wrote:

redeuce wrote:T53 is a curious bird. Actually, back in the day, before the glut of imports in the last years, they were somewhat uncommon. Due to import laws. Collectors are of different opinions on these. Some love the warhorse look. Some like the clean, all matching ones. Some like both. If one has the financial resources, both examples would be in the collection. I myself, at this time, only want one example of each model. I bought an old warhorse, but with an excellent bore. The stock is beat up enough that I didn't even want to shoot it. So, I bought another T53 stock on EBay, and when I go shooting I switch over to the good stock. For display and storage I keep it in the original. Warhorses still can be found for $99-$115. The all matching nice ones are hitting $250-$325 online. Since the T53 is always readily available for sale, do plenty of shopping and pick the one that speaks to you. I suspect many collectors may have 2 stocks, as there is a guy on EBay making a killing selling T53 stocks. They come with various hardware, most with cleaning rod.

Something tells me you were not collecting Mosins back in the late 1980's , at that time the Chinese were flooding the US market with anything that would shoot from cheap SKS, and AK rifles, to thousands of very issued type 53's. These 53's were everywhere and sold very cheap, $20 commonly. I had one dealer I did a lot of business with simply gift me with one after he couldn't move it for $20 even after six months. Few people knew what the hell they were, or cared, and the look of them was something of a turn off for many non collectors. The first Bush administration slammed the door on Chinese military rifle imports, but before they did that shiploads of them came in. If you see a type 53 with the old style tiny import mark up by the muzzle and a very rough appearance then you have one of these earlier imports. Prior to that time you had a steady influx of them coming home with servicemen returning from Vietnam, the type 53 was one of the rifles they were legally allowed to bring home. They were provided by the Chinese communists to the North Vietnamese who then gave them to pro communist gorilla's in South Vietnam, who then lost them to US troops.

Actually, I was around at that time . In the late eighties Omega, CIA, Navy Arms, and a couple others brought them in. Maybe some of the real rats were $25. I have a copy of a Navy Arms catalog from that time somewhere. I think they featured in that catalog SKS, M1 30 caliber, Mas, Finn M28, and the T53. The fair condition T53's were $55 and the excellent condition ones were $105. My son in law started collected big time back then. His partner was a FFL01. They later opened a firearms store together. And I remember when the door shut there was a period they were not plentiful.

There was a small number brought in that were basically in unissued condition, brand new, I only saw them from a distance, Omega was still trying to sell these well into the 2000's. They would show up on the board with cleaning rods jammed in the bores, massive rust, or busted stocks. These would be the rifles they couldn't sell back in the 90's so they waited for the Soviet hoard to make Mosins more popular before bringing them out again. Navy Arms is always more expensive because they stay away from the real rough ones. Many of the ones I saw were no more rough than a Balkan used Mosin from Romania, but there were some real basket cases.

zeebill wrote:I always thought the rough condition of the T53 was sort of endearing to the eye and thoughts of their usage. It sort of reeked the history of themselves a bit. Recently saw a couple of Russian M44's that were supposedly captured in Grenada and imported by CAI many years ago and they sort of mirror the average T53 in condition. One even has MDC scratched crudely in it. Have been told it stands for Ministry of Defense Cuba as Cuba and Nicaragua were the suppliers of arms for the rebels down there. These M44's have good bores like many T53's do also and they work very smoothly too. Some are even signed by people with very Spanish sounding names. No I don't have one and I could but as I have said many times I buy rifles not stories. Bill

True, my last one did have a reek all right, I didn't know history smelled like mouse piss and mothballs