The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

The rifle in question is a recently purchased 1943 Izhevsk, M38. It has a CIA import on the left side of receiver, which is stamped M1938. With the import mark stamping M38 I assumed it was authentic but now I have noticed what looks like tooling marks where a bayonet would have been. My thought is that the bayonet was removed, or maybe a repair? I would like to get others opinions thanks.

Photos would help here, but 1943 production rifles are known for having a wartime expedient finish on them. The arsenal omitted the final finishing stages of the metal in order to speed production. They didn't do this on every 1943, but a bulk of them will show heavy tool marks still on the metal. 1943 is a rare year for the M44, it's the trials year, there are few around, and they are heavily sought after by collectors. If that is a 1943 M44 missing it's bayonet and mount then these parts can be had to replace what is missing, and you still have a good find.

Here are the photos. Looks like they were too big when I tried to post them before.

mt4130 wrote:The rifle in question is a recently purchased 1943 Izhevsk, M38. It has a CIA import on the left side of receiver, which is stamped M1938. With the import mark stamping M38 I assumed it was authentic but now I have noticed what looks like tooling marks where a bayonet would have been. My thought is that the bayonet was removed, or maybe a repair? I would like to get others opinions thanks.

It sounds like maybe you actually have a M91/38? We really just need to see pics of it. The M91/38's had M44 front sights and bayonets mounted, and then later the bayonet part of the sight was ground off. You can usually still see part of the pin stuck in the side of the barrel. My M91/38 is like that as is every other M91/38 I've seen a photo of the muzzle end.

Also a small chance it could be a M1891/59.

M38's never took bayonets so if it had been missID'd by the importer and was an actual M44 with bayonet removed it fooled them. Like everyone has said good detail pictures would be the final decision maker here. Bill

These are the best pics I have been able to take. There will be a delay here since I m a new member.

I believe it is an authentic M38. It is in an M44 stock. This is common.

Thanks for giving me some possibilities. I will go with the authentic m38 unless someone can explain otherwise.

It is an m38, and in a m44 stock which is very common. The bayonets from any of the rifles will not go on it. I have 3 m38s in m44 stocks myself.

That is a basic 1943 wartime M38 that is in a M44 stock. M44 stocks were used on the M38's during the post WWII refurbishments, and are normal. That is a typical 1943 M38

MarksmanTim wrote:

mt4130 wrote:The rifle in question is a recently purchased 1943 Izhevsk, M38. It has a CIA import on the left side of receiver, which is stamped M1938. With the import mark stamping M38 I assumed it was authentic but now I have noticed what looks like tooling marks where a bayonet would have been. My thought is that the bayonet was removed, or maybe a repair? I would like to get others opinions thanks.

It sounds like maybe you actually have a M91/38? We really just need to see pics of it. The M91/38's had M44 front sights and bayonets mounted, and then later the bayonet part of the sight was ground off. You can usually still see part of the pin stuck in the side of the barrel. My M91/38 is like that as is every other M91/38 I've seen a photo of the muzzle end.

Also a small chance it could be a M1891/59.

Can't be Tim. If it were a M91/38, it would not be dated 1943. It would be an older rifle it was made from. If it was a 91/59, then it would be stamped M91/59 (most of the time). Doesn't look like it was a M44, because the beginning of the barrel would be different also.

Love to see the top of the barrel shank (behind the rear sights).

Probably a m38 with a little "touch up" grinding. ?????

Dolk

I think Darryl is right. There is some kind of activity on the area behind the front sight, but heck half of my Mosins have some kind of "activity"

bunkysdad wrote:I think Darryl is right. There is some kind of activity on the area behind the front sight, but heck half of my Mosins have some kind of "activity"

Maybe Ivan had a 8mm bullet wiz by his head and he got distracted on "Vodka Friday".

Screwed up the Lathe action and had to "manually" touch it up!


Seriously, (right) ... On a M44, the end of the barrel is turned down from the muzzle to the back of the bayonet bracket. Then the bracket it put on and aligned, then a hole for a pin is drilled to hold it in place. If you remove all that it would look nothing like a M38 on the end. And if it was still on there, you'd see it. I don't think it is a M44.

So

If it is not old enough to be a M91/38 (1943)
It is not marked as a 91/59
and it can't be a M44
Then .......Must be a M38....right? Or am I missing something?

Not sure why but I prefer the m38 over a 44. Something about the Bayonet that just says I don't belong here, I point the other way. lol

Looks like a M38 to me with a M44 stock which is very common on an M38. Which ever it is a very nice find.

Agreed. Now that we have photos, it is definitely an M38.

The M38 is your basic Russian Mosin carbine, only the M44 was a real deviation from the norm with the attached bayonet. The bayonet and it's mount add enough weight to bring it into 91/30 territory. As it is the Mosin is the longest of carbines, the German ( all Mauser carbines), British, French, Italian, Japanese, and of course the US M1 carbine are all considerably shorter and lighter than the M38 Mosin. As Mosins go the M38 is the most handy of Mosins, as is the 91/59, and 91/38 derivatives of it. The M38 is simply an updated version of things like the M1907 carbine. It's not by accident that I grabbed every M38 that came my way.

dolk wrote:

MarksmanTim wrote:

mt4130 wrote:The rifle in question is a recently purchased 1943 Izhevsk, M38. It has a CIA import on the left side of receiver, which is stamped M1938. With the import mark stamping M38 I assumed it was authentic but now I have noticed what looks like tooling marks where a bayonet would have been. My thought is that the bayonet was removed, or maybe a repair? I would like to get others opinions thanks.

It sounds like maybe you actually have a M91/38? We really just need to see pics of it. The M91/38's had M44 front sights and bayonets mounted, and then later the bayonet part of the sight was ground off. You can usually still see part of the pin stuck in the side of the barrel. My M91/38 is like that as is every other M91/38 I've seen a photo of the muzzle end.

Also a small chance it could be a M1891/59.

Can't be Tim. If it were a M91/38, it would not be dated 1943. It would be an older rifle it was made from. If it was a 91/59, then it would be stamped M91/59 (most of the time). Doesn't look like it was a M44, because the beginning of the barrel would be different also.

Love to see the top of the barrel shank (behind the rear sights).

Probably a m38 with a little "touch up" grinding. ?????

Dolk

Here is the picture of the barrel shank.

I agree it is really handy, really fun to shoot. I will be looking for more of the M38s, I have 2 now. When I took it out last week went about 100 rounds, 20 rounds into shooting and the finish was boiling on the wood. Thanks for your help.

One of our younger members actually set his 91/30 on fire. Shoot 20 rounds, change rifles, shoot 20 and repeat.