The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

Hello to all. New to the forum. I have a 1930 Tula hex receiver. I have done a little research and found that they made 72,000 of these for that year. Are these just estimates because my serial # is 72321. Any info would be appreciated it. Thanks!

estimates

Serial numbers mean little to nothing in correlation to any production numbers due to the way the Russians randomly mixed them up during any given year. This was most likely done to confound the enemy when trying to estimate rifle production totals.

Guesswork at best as the Russians seem disinclined to share any information relating to arms production then or now. I have a 1930 Tula sitting next to my computer at home, it's there to refresh my memory whenever someone asks a " why don't it work right, fix and make it better" question. Much easier if I have a rifle there so I can look it over and remember how common problems are corrected. I think it's even in a video someplace.

Welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy your time here!

I am assuming that the rifle you have is a refurb and one of which many are available on the market today. These are basically refurbished parts rifles which make great shooters but have the muddled history that one would expect in a parts rifle. Some of them project great looking pictures and attract many people to them. The fact that they are available from so many sources makes them attractive to many people. I have a few left after years of collecting and enjoy shooting them greatly! Where else can you get a good shooting high powered rifle for the amount they are costing these days? It just isn't out there anymore with US made rifles being way up there in price. Congrats on your rifle and do enjoy shooting it! Bill

WeldonHunter wrote:Serial numbers mean little to nothing in correlation to any production numbers due to the way the Russians randomly mixed them up during any given year. This was most likely done to confound the enemy when trying to estimate rifle production totals.

Not quite. I believe prior to 1938 and the introduction of the Cyrillic prefix system, the serial numbers went exactly numerically. I've been tracking which groups of 1936 and 1937 M91/30's wen to Spain based on this system.

lthilsdorf wrote:

WeldonHunter wrote:Serial numbers mean little to nothing in correlation to any production numbers due to the way the Russians randomly mixed them up during any given year. This was most likely done to confound the enemy when trying to estimate rifle production totals.

Not quite. I believe prior to 1938 and the introduction of the Cyrillic prefix system, the serial numbers went exactly numerically. I've been tracking which groups of 1936 and 1937 M91/30's wen to Spain based on this system.

I have read this also. I didn't want to chime in and take a disagreeable note but I did recall reading this.

lthilsdorf wrote:

WeldonHunter wrote:Serial numbers mean little to nothing in correlation to any production numbers due to the way the Russians randomly mixed them up during any given year. This was most likely done to confound the enemy when trying to estimate rifle production totals.

Not quite. I believe prior to 1938 and the introduction of the Cyrillic prefix system, the serial numbers went exactly numerically. I've been tracking which groups of 1936 and 1937 M91/30's wen to Spain based on this system.

Interesting. To bad the Russians aren't sharing any info. to confirm this. I guess maybe it was more a wartime thing to confuse the enemy or to much Vodka.

"The original system of serial numbering used by the Russians - and continued into the soviet era - was the common European custom of running up to the end of a six figure series per year, and beginning at 0001 the following year. The Russians followed the usual pattern, and the only distinguishing characteristic during this period is the prefix Ka3 (Russian Kaz) before the serial number of Cossack rifles.

In late 1937 or early 1938 the soviets began an alphanumeric serial numbering system, under which the former six digit annual pattern was retained, but preceded by a Cyrillic letter, in alphabetical order as the series progressed. When production reached huge numbers in WWII a second Cyrillic letter was added, again in alphabetical order, at the end of each five-digit series. This system was first employed on the M1891/30 rifle and became the soviet standard."

Terence W. Lapin - The Mosin Nagant Rifle (Appendix B Russian Serial Numbering)

husker51 wrote:"The original system of serial numbering used by the Russians - and continued into the soviet era - was the common European custom of running up to the end of a six figure series per year, and beginning at 0001 the following year. The Russians followed the usual pattern, and the only distinguishing characteristic during this period is the prefix Ka3 (Russian Kaz) before the serial number of Cossack rifles.

In late 1937 or early 1938 the soviets began an alphanumeric serial numbering system, under which the former six digit annual pattern was retained, but preceded by a Cyrillic letter, in alphabetical order as the series progressed. When production reached huge numbers in WWII a second Cyrillic letter was added, again in alphabetical order, at the end of each five-digit series. This system was first employed on the M1891/30 rifle and became the soviet standard."

Terence W. Lapin - The Mosin Nagant Rifle (Appendix B Russian Serial Numbering)

That's strange because on this forum I've seen many seasoned collectors over the last 3 years state these were serialized in a sort of random fashion with low serial numbers starting at anytime through a given year with no real order to the prefixes. Kind of makes you scratch your head.

I know. Reading T. W. Lapin left me scratching MY head. I disagree with some things he has in this book but on this particular item I don't know. I think there can be a reasonable argument either way. (IMHO)

Interesting.

I'm pretty positive that the non-prefixed numbers go right in order. While tracking SCW rifles form 1936 and 1937 there are very distinct groups with only SCW or non-refurbed rifles that are probably Spanish in them. I'd think it would be much more random if the serial numbers were randomized.

Maybe they were running blocks of numbers and certain blocks went to spain. I looked at the numbers yesterday too and it does seem they are running in a group or 2.

Quoting anything out of Lapin's books can be a real gamble. He has sold 6 printings now and has made a good deal of money off the Mosin Nagant books he has sold. I will say he has gotten better but there are still things he prints that are proven wrong and his ability to take information from known experts in the rifles is not renown for being open and excepting the accepted. His book is a place to start and nothing more to my way of thinking. The problem is the really good books on Finn's and Mosins are super expensive and out of the price range of most collectors. Many are not written in English too and that has hurt also. Then you get down to the prices of them and you have got to be a rich man to afford them plus a lot of them are out of print too. Online sources are for the most part up to date and I believe the best sources for the most part. Some of the online stuff is very easy to find stuff and others are a real problem to find answers in a normal amount of time. I guess nothing is perfect so we journey onward in our attempts to learn and collect. Bill

I would pay the damn cost of K-H's book if it were printed in English!

Just in case you got lucky like I did and to go with Junk Yard Dog's vid is my unrefurbished 1930 Tula.