The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

My wife and I were out this afternoon and I said I wanted to stop by Gander Mtn. just to walk through the store. Mistake. They had their Mosins on sale for $129.99. Most of you guys probably already knew this, but I didn't. I asked them to check for any hex receivers. They were all sold Friday. I asked if they had any with a star on the receiver. The guy went back to the vault and has a 1940 Tula in his hand. This was the only one out of 2 crates. I looked at it and asked my wife if this could be my Christmas present. She agreed, so now I have another Mosin. No great shakes and far as I know nothing really special, but I like it. Please excuse the photo quality. I guess I still have the bug.

Nice

She is a sweet looker that one! Nice find! I would have had to have her myself!

Boy you got to wonder how many of these did they buy for the Black Friday sales, my G.M. has a rack of about forty or more. The new bunch of rifle appear to be in a little better shape than the last group they had. Nice find.

Matching serials?

looks to be in good shape, Congrats

vis_ionmas_ter wrote:Matching serials?

99.99% of all refurbed Mosin Nagants, of which this is one, will have matching numbers that were force matched. This means little in the collecting world because these rifles are made from parts of many rifles. All parts that were numbered, bolt, magazine floor plate and butt plate were scrubbed or lined out and forced matched to the barrel the rifle was rebuilt on.

I say this because there's a lot of new Mosin Nagant owners coming to the boards that place to much emphasis on matching serial numbers. On refurbs if they don't match you should be concerned.

WeldonHunter wrote: 99.99% of all refurbed Mosin Nagants, of which this is one, will have matching numbers that were force matched. This means little in the collecting world because these rifles are made from parts of many rifles. All parts that were numbered, bolt, magazine floor plate and butt plate were scrubbed or lined out and forced matched to the barrel the rifle was rebuilt on. .

But what if theyre not struck through? Arent those original serials? Or were they new parts at the time of refurb and stamped then to match?

vis_ionmas_ter wrote:

WeldonHunter wrote: 99.99% of all refurbed Mosin Nagants, of which this is one, will have matching numbers that were force matched. This means little in the collecting world because these rifles are made from parts of many rifles. All parts that were numbered, bolt, magazine floor plate and butt plate were scrubbed or lined out and forced matched to the barrel the rifle was rebuilt on. .

But what if theyre not struck through? Arent those original serials? Or were they new parts at the time of refurb and stamped then to match?

Some might be new parts but the Russians used anything that was still serviceable and the majority of the parts used were from other rifles and the old numbers were ground off or lined out. The numbers on these rifles that are not lined out are put there where the numbers were that were scrubbed off. Yeah I know it looks like there was never a number there but they ground them off in a way that left little to no evidence of the old numbers in most cases. If they only lined the old numbers out they restamped the new numbers near the lined out numbers. Most times you can see differences in the font of the numbers on the parts that were restamped as apposed to the original numbers on the barrel.

Here's what they did. During the refurb process they pulled the rifles apart down to all it's various parts. All parts that were the same went into bins with other parts from other rifles just like it. Triggers in one bin, cocking knobs in another, bolt heads in another, stocks in another and so on. The parts that were on a rifle are now no longer part of the rifle they came off of. Then they sent them off to be checked for wear or damage. If they were serviceable they repaired them and reblued (if it was a blued part originally) or in some case painted them with black paint. All parts that had numbers on them had them removed by scrubbing/grinding or they were lined out at this point. The only part of the rifle still in tact was the barreled receiver and that was only if either of those was not damaged. If a receiver was damaged but the barrel was still good they replaced the receiver and visa versa. That's why we sometimes see receivers with different dates on the tang then the barrel's date. The only part of the rifle that retained it's original serial numbers was the barrels. Then they went to be reassembled and restamped. They pulled a barreled receiver and built a rifle on it pulling parts from bins. Any part that had a number before was then numbered to match the barrel they were building the rifle on. This is called forced matching and is part of the refurb process. That's also why you see these rifles with a mix of various arsenal parts. It's expected and completely correct. Sometimes you'll see a refurb with all the same arsenal parts that match the barrel's arsenal but it's either a fluke or someone's been busy trying to make the rifle "correct" as they see it and have done just the opposite.

These rifles were refurbed on a mass scale for many decades and in the millions so trying to rebuild rifles using the original parts was not an option. This was an easier, more efficient way to do it.

vis_ionmas_ter wrote:

WeldonHunter wrote: 99.99% of all refurbed Mosin Nagants, of which this is one, will have matching numbers that were force matched. This means little in the collecting world because these rifles are made from parts of many rifles. All parts that were numbered, bolt, magazine floor plate and butt plate were scrubbed or lined out and forced matched to the barrel the rifle was rebuilt on. .

But what if theyre not struck through? Arent those original serials? Or were they new parts at the time of refurb and stamped then to match?

If you go to the Molot forum you can see pictures of my recent '39 Tula. The stamped serial number on the buttplate matches the serial number on the barrel including the two letter prefixes. However the buttplate is clearly marked Izhevsk and the barrel marked Tula. There is no line out so the buttplate was scrubbed carefully enough to save the Izhevsk stamp and restamped carefully enough to add the letter prefixes. Trigger guard is the same way. So stamped numbers on a refurb still is likely a forced match.

Very nice, congrats!

Mosinitis cannot be cured..... You may go into remission but it will flare up again & again.

Cool Xmas Present... I'm sure I'll be getting just coal & socks again this year.

Rongo wrote:Mosinitis cannot be cured..... You may go into remission but it will flare up again & again.

Cool Xmas Present... I'm sure I'll be getting just coal & socks again this year.

WeldonHunter wrote:The numbers on these rifles that are not lined out are put there where the numbers were that were scrubbed off. Yeah I know it looks like there was never a number there but they ground them off in a way that left little to no evidence of the old numbers in most cases. If they only lined the old numbers out they restamped the new numbers near the lined out numbers. Most times you can see differences in the font of the numbers on the parts that were restamped as apposed to the original numbers on the barrel.

Well thanks for the info, Weldon.....learn something new everyday

Sorry for hijacking your thread for a bit, wolfstein

vis_ionmas_ter wrote:

WeldonHunter wrote:The numbers on these rifles that are not lined out are put there where the numbers were that were scrubbed off. Yeah I know it looks like there was never a number there but they ground them off in a way that left little to no evidence of the old numbers in most cases. If they only lined the old numbers out they restamped the new numbers near the lined out numbers. Most times you can see differences in the font of the numbers on the parts that were restamped as apposed to the original numbers on the barrel.

Well thanks for the info, Weldon.....learn something new everyday

Sorry for hijacking your thread for a bit, wolfstein

Hey me too. That's what's so fun about collecting military surplus weapons. There's new stuff to learn all the time.

Mosinitis is a terminal disease... no cure!

WeldonHunter wrote:

vis_ionmas_ter wrote:

WeldonHunter wrote:The numbers on these rifles that are not lined out are put there where the numbers were that were scrubbed off. Yeah I know it looks like there was never a number there but they ground them off in a way that left little to no evidence of the old numbers in most cases. If they only lined the old numbers out they restamped the new numbers near the lined out numbers. Most times you can see differences in the font of the numbers on the parts that were restamped as apposed to the original numbers on the barrel.

Well thanks for the info, Weldon.....learn something new everyday

Sorry for hijacking your thread for a bit, wolfstein

Hey me too. That's what's so fun about collecting military surplus weapons. There's new stuff to learn all the time.

No problem, I am always open to learning something more about Mosins. Thanks for the information.

Very nice Hope you left one for me. Judi and her Mosin's