Some time back, I got interested which year or category of Russian SKS is the rarest to least rare. Since I keep sales data (similar to what Boomer tracks) on all Russian SKS sales each month on Gunbroker, I already had all the data at my finger tips. My findings are only based on actual Gunbroker sales from March 2011 through Dec 2011. I've collected sales data on 313 Russian's sold. This data does not include rifles that were "Bubba'd", unless all original parts came with the auction. Although, these findings are a bit unscientific (meaning they don't include ALL Russian SKS sales from other sites, forums, etc.), they do represent a fairly accurate picture of where the rarity lies within the Russian SKS genre.
A lot of people ask me about the Russian they own and if it's a collectible or not. I consider EVERY Russian SKS collectible, but certainly some are more highly prized than others.
Now, I had 45 rifles that I simply could not identify as to what year they were from. This was because folks simply didn't show enough conclusive information in their auction description or their pictures didn't show enough details do determine year or other valuable information. People really need to learn which pics are important to post on an auction ad, so there were only 268 rifles identifiable by year/type. I update this every couple weeks or so and it is always changing, so if you are interested in a continued or updated list every now and then, just let me know. I keep this file in a simple text doc and can easily email it. My sales data is kept in an Excel spreadsheet.
I hope you find this as interesting as I do.
From RAREST to LEAST RARE with percentages:
(Year | Amount Sold | % of total out of 268 rifles sold)
'53 Izhevsk non-refurb ---------- 0 - 0%
'49 -----------------------------4 - 1.5%
'54 Izhevsk non-refurb -----------4 - 1.5%
'55/56 Letter "I"--------------4 - 1.5%
'55/56 Letter "D"-------------5 - 1.9%
'55------------------------------7 - 2.6%
'54 Izhevsk refurb-----------------7 - 2.6%
'55/56 Letter "K"-------------7 - 2.6%
'55/56 unknown letter-------9 - 3.4%
'52-----------------------------30 - 11.2%
'50-----------------------------33 - 12.3%
'53-----------------------------45 - 16.8%
'51-----------------------------50 - 18.7%
'54-----------------------------60 - 22.4%
Refurbs------262 - 83.7% (out of 313 rifles)
Non-refurbs - 50 - 15.97% (out of 313 rifles)
Ex-DDR's - 14 - 4.5% (out of 313 rifles)
(updated - 12/23/11)
How Rare is my Russian SKS?
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
Oh, since ex-DDR's come in all years, I gave them a separate category. They really require special scrutiny, because on the surface, they seem to not be as rare as say the "letter" series guns. But, keep in mind they are of all years. Technically, they are the 4th rarest Russian SKS variant, if you were to include all "Letter" series Russians into a single category. I haven't pulled the data by year on the DDR's, since there were only 14 sold since March 2011.
-Drago
-Drago
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
Excellent knowledge Jeff. Maybe my earlier months in 2011 can add to your numbers. I would like to see this as you get time. I suspect that when a year or 18 months worth of numbers are input, those numbers will remain rather static as time goes on.
-
OLD OUTLAW
- Posts: 1270
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:31 pm
- Location: Eastern Iowa
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
Drago, first or second week of March, the first I letter gun you saw I bought. It is that extraordinary Original in dark Ruby Red AB stock. The other 3 were the standard refurbs as I recall. This I is posted in this thread further down. Only one I think anyone knows of in 2011.Drago wrote:Some time back, I got interested which year or category of Russian SKS is the rarest to least rare. Since I keep sales data (similar to what Boomer tracks) on all Russian SKS sales each month on Gunbroker, I already had all the data at my finger tips. My findings are only based on actual Gunbroker sales from March 2011 through Dec 2011. I've collected sales data on 313 Russian's sold. This data does not include rifles that were "Bubba'd", unless all original parts came with the auction. Although, these findings are a bit unscientific (meaning they don't include ALL Russian SKS sales from other sites, forums, etc.), they do represent a fairly accurate picture of where the rarity lies within the Russian SKS genre.
A lot of people ask me about the Russian they own and if it's a collectible or not. I consider EVERY Russian SKS collectible, but certainly some are more highly prized than others.
Now, I had 45 rifles that I simply could not identify as to what year they were from. This was because folks simply didn't show enough conclusive information in their auction description or their pictures didn't show enough details do determine year or other valuable information. People really need to learn which pics are important to post on an auction ad, so there were only 268 rifles identifiable by year/type. I update this every couple weeks or so and it is always changing, so if you are interested in a continued or updated list every now and then, just let me know. I keep this file in a simple text doc and can easily email it. My sales data is kept in an Excel spreadsheet.
I hope you find this as interesting as I do.
From RAREST to LEAST RARE with percentages:
(Year | Amount Sold | % of total out of 268 rifles sold)
'53 Izhevsk non-refurb ---------- 0 - 0%
'49 -----------------------------4 - 1.5%
'54 Izhevsk non-refurb -----------4 - 1.5%
'55/56 Letter "I"--------------4 - 1.5%
'55/56 Letter "D"-------------5 - 1.9%
'55------------------------------7 - 2.6%
'54 Izhevsk refurb-----------------7 - 2.6%
'55/56 Letter "K"-------------7 - 2.6%
'55/56 unknown letter-------9 - 3.4%
'52-----------------------------30 - 11.2%
'50-----------------------------33 - 12.3%
'53-----------------------------45 - 16.8%
'51-----------------------------50 - 18.7%
'54-----------------------------60 - 22.4%
Refurbs------262 - 83.7% (out of 313 rifles)
Non-refurbs - 50 - 15.97% (out of 313 rifles)
Ex-DDR's - 14 - 4.5% (out of 313 rifles)
(updated - 12/23/11)
A lot more 54 original Izhevsk's out there than an original I Letter.
Happiness is owning Swedish Mausers!
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
Boomer, if you'll email me your excel spreadsheet, I'll add the numbers to what I have, minus the bubba's. You're right, the more guns shown, the more stable the percentages.
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
This type of sampling might need a few years to iron out, but it would eventually show a good representation of what the breakdown (by percentage) is in this country.
A good measure for reason would be that in 2008 and 2009, exactly 1 (one) 1949 showed up on Gunbroker, and then four show up in the same year.
And I also saw at least one, if not more, 1953 Izhevsks this year. Perhaps it was before March? Just not of the non-refurb type, or I would have made sure it went for market value!
A good measure for reason would be that in 2008 and 2009, exactly 1 (one) 1949 showed up on Gunbroker, and then four show up in the same year.
And I also saw at least one, if not more, 1953 Izhevsks this year. Perhaps it was before March? Just not of the non-refurb type, or I would have made sure it went for market value!
No words of wisdom come to mind at this time....
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
When I get the data in from Boomer, I'll do a comparison. I had to start somewhere. In 10 days, we can add a '53 Izhevsk non-refurb & another '49, if they sell.
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
Ah, I didn't interpret your first post correctly. You are tracking only the ones that have sold, and not continually listed. I get it now!
No words of wisdom come to mind at this time....
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
Correct, and I also don't track Bubba's that have sold unless all the original parts are included in the sale. This is also only sales from Gunbroker. It's only to give me a basic snapshot of what's being offered, but it's fairly accurate, I believe.
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
Jeff- What months do you need from me? I'm not sure when you started tracking the sales. I have them saved in Paint Photoshop 5 if you can handle that format.
I believe a year's worth of data would be a great start. I have the info for 2010 but it will need some sorting out before I can get it to you. Two years of data would begin to have some meaning, maybe not for the 49s or the 53 Izhevsk originals. but the rest ought to start having meaning.
As you point out, there are many that sell that none of us have any idea what they relly are. Again, presentation, presentation. It's just not there 100 % of the time. I have contacted some of the sellers about their presentation and they just tell me to go fly a kite.
Then their rifles gets relisted four or five times and then is gone from the listing, unsold I assume.
I believe a year's worth of data would be a great start. I have the info for 2010 but it will need some sorting out before I can get it to you. Two years of data would begin to have some meaning, maybe not for the 49s or the 53 Izhevsk originals. but the rest ought to start having meaning.
As you point out, there are many that sell that none of us have any idea what they relly are. Again, presentation, presentation. It's just not there 100 % of the time. I have contacted some of the sellers about their presentation and they just tell me to go fly a kite.
Then their rifles gets relisted four or five times and then is gone from the listing, unsold I assume.Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
Boomer, your info in a paint file really isn't going to help me save any time. You don't create the info in Paint, do you? If so, then I'll just go through the images you have already posted since that's really what you'd be sending me anyway. I thought you told me once that you input the data from GB into an excel spreadsheet. That's what I do for my sales sheet, since that's what Excel is for. You can't create graphs and collate data inside of Paint/Photoshop.boomer34 wrote:Jeff- What months do you need from me? I'm not sure when you started tracking the sales. I have them saved in Paint Photoshop 5 if you can handle that format.
I believe a year's worth of data would be a great start. I have the info for 2010 but it will need some sorting out before I can get it to you. Two years of data would begin to have some meaning, maybe not for the 49s or the 53 Izhevsk originals. but the rest ought to start having meaning.
As you point out, there are many that sell that none of us have any idea what they relly are. Again, presentation, presentation. It's just not there 100 % of the time. I have contacted some of the sellers about their presentation and they just tell me to go fly a kite.
It's not a big deal as there really aren't that many rifles to go through. I'm used to having to pour over thousands of entries at my work and these SKS sales are only a few hundred. I'll just hand write your data that is missing from mine, then input it into my spreadsheet. That is, unless you do have Excel files. That would save me about 2 hours worth of work and condense it down into about 15 minutes.
All this is just me procrastinating doing my end of year close out crap for work, which I do not relish starting-completing...I loathe end of year accounting/inventory/close-out...
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
Sorry Jeff-I only have a "live" XL in the month I am currently in, December. My images are of the XL but not able to be worked with except to view as images.
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
Drago, feel free to use my rifle's data in any of your charts if you can use it. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=779
“Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell, English novelist, essayist, and critic, 1903-1950
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C. S. Lewis
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C. S. Lewis
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
It's okay, Boomer, I just finished up taking the data from your charts to fill in the months of Jan-April, of which I was missing. I'll see about compiling some new data, now. I was able to add 78 rifles, so we'll see how the numbers compare to what I already have.boomer34 wrote:Sorry Jeff-I only have a "live" XL in the month I am currently in, December. My images are of the XL but not able to be worked with except to view as images.
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
I appreciate it! Thanks!millman wrote:Drago, feel free to use my rifle's data in any of your charts if you can use it. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=779
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
Okay, I took the time to add 78 rifles (sold on Gunbroker from Jan 1-March 8) from the sales data Boomer gathered. I only started collecting sales data on March 9th, so I was missing these earlier sales. It didn't change the rarity scale by much, but there are changes. Unfortunately, Boomer, you only collected data on Letter Series rifles as a group, not by individual letter (I, K or D) so I was unable to accurately add those rifles to an individual ratio, aside from OldOutlaws' known Letter "I", as-issued. I gave that rifle it's own ranking because it was the only one sold this year. It stands as the second rarest, just under a '53 as-issued, of which none were sold, so far this year.
Also, 8 of the new batch of rifles were inconclusive or undetermined as to which year or type they belong, so they were omitted. This isn't Boomer's fault, but the fault of the seller simply not describing or posting adequate photos for their ad. I still gave the a percentage, but it's an irrelevant percentage.
Here are the new numbers out of 390 total rifles sold, less 53 that we cannot confirm:
Year/Type................................Quantity............................%/Rarity
53 Izhevsk non-refurb............................0......................0.00% (out of 337 rifles sold)
55/56 Letter "I" non-refurb.................1......................0.30% (out of 337 rifles sold)(Old Outlaw's weapon)
49..............................................4......................1.19% (out of 337 rifles sold)
55/56 Letter "I"..............................4......................1.19% (out of 268 rifles sold)
55/56 Letter "D".............................5......................1.48% (out of 268 rifles sold)
54 Izhevsk refurb................................7......................2.08% (out of 337 rifles sold)
55/56 Letter "K".............................7......................2.08% (out of 268 rifles sold)
54 Izhevsk non-refurb...........................8......................2.37% (out of 337 rifles sold)
55/56 unknown letter.......................9......................2.67% (out of 337 rifles sold)
55.............................................13.....................3.86% (out of 337 rifles sold)
50.............................................43.....................12.76% (out of 337 rifles sold)
52.............................................44.....................13.06% (out of 337 rifles sold)
53.............................................55.....................16.32% (out of 337 rifles sold)
51.............................................59.....................17.51% (out of 337 rifles sold)
54.............................................71.....................21.07% (out of 337 rifles sold)
? Unknown year..............................53.....................15.73% (out of 390 rifles sold)
DDR...........................................17.....................5.04% (out of 337 rifles sold)
Letter Series Total..........................22.....................6.61% (out of 337 rifles sold)
non-refurb...................................57.....................14.62% (out of 390 rifles sold)
refurb........................................333....................85.38% (out of 390 rifles sold)
I find it interesting that if you group the Letter Series Russians and the Ex-DDR's, the Ex-DDR's are a tad rarer. If we were to split Ex-DDR's into year categories, they quickly become some of the rarest Russian's. I may do that at some point in the future as some collectors (myself included) have 1 or more Ex-DDR's of every year (or trying for that). Would be interesting to see if certain years are harder to find than others.
(Edited - I just realized that I neglected to mention Letter Series rifles are found in both refurb and non-refurb varieties. A non-refurb'd Letter series rifle is a very rare bird. I haven't actually looked at that data, but suffice it to say any Letter non-refurb is worth having. I may amend this new chart to reflect that data)
Also, 8 of the new batch of rifles were inconclusive or undetermined as to which year or type they belong, so they were omitted. This isn't Boomer's fault, but the fault of the seller simply not describing or posting adequate photos for their ad. I still gave the a percentage, but it's an irrelevant percentage.
Here are the new numbers out of 390 total rifles sold, less 53 that we cannot confirm:
Year/Type................................Quantity............................%/Rarity
53 Izhevsk non-refurb............................0......................0.00% (out of 337 rifles sold)
55/56 Letter "I" non-refurb.................1......................0.30% (out of 337 rifles sold)(Old Outlaw's weapon)
49..............................................4......................1.19% (out of 337 rifles sold)
55/56 Letter "I"..............................4......................1.19% (out of 268 rifles sold)
55/56 Letter "D".............................5......................1.48% (out of 268 rifles sold)
54 Izhevsk refurb................................7......................2.08% (out of 337 rifles sold)
55/56 Letter "K".............................7......................2.08% (out of 268 rifles sold)
54 Izhevsk non-refurb...........................8......................2.37% (out of 337 rifles sold)
55/56 unknown letter.......................9......................2.67% (out of 337 rifles sold)
55.............................................13.....................3.86% (out of 337 rifles sold)
50.............................................43.....................12.76% (out of 337 rifles sold)
52.............................................44.....................13.06% (out of 337 rifles sold)
53.............................................55.....................16.32% (out of 337 rifles sold)
51.............................................59.....................17.51% (out of 337 rifles sold)
54.............................................71.....................21.07% (out of 337 rifles sold)
? Unknown year..............................53.....................15.73% (out of 390 rifles sold)
DDR...........................................17.....................5.04% (out of 337 rifles sold)
Letter Series Total..........................22.....................6.61% (out of 337 rifles sold)
non-refurb...................................57.....................14.62% (out of 390 rifles sold)
refurb........................................333....................85.38% (out of 390 rifles sold)
I find it interesting that if you group the Letter Series Russians and the Ex-DDR's, the Ex-DDR's are a tad rarer. If we were to split Ex-DDR's into year categories, they quickly become some of the rarest Russian's. I may do that at some point in the future as some collectors (myself included) have 1 or more Ex-DDR's of every year (or trying for that). Would be interesting to see if certain years are harder to find than others.
(Edited - I just realized that I neglected to mention Letter Series rifles are found in both refurb and non-refurb varieties. A non-refurb'd Letter series rifle is a very rare bird. I haven't actually looked at that data, but suffice it to say any Letter non-refurb is worth having. I may amend this new chart to reflect that data)
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
Old Outlaw, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I found what I believe to be as another Letter "I", non-refurb, sold in October. I listed it as such in my sales data and because it's within 90 days of auction end, you can still view the pics. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =256434502
It has virgin cartouches and looks to be in a non-refurb'd stock. Unfortunately, there are only 4 pics. The sick thing is, this rifle only sold for $321. At any rate, I'll keep the chart above unchanged, unless provenance is otherwise warranted.
Repeat after myself....
I will pay closer attention to the friggin obvious before I post,
I will pay closer attention to the friggin obvious before I post,
I will pay closer attention to the friggin obvious before I post,
I will pay closer attention to the friggin obvious before I post.....
There, now I feel better. Nothing like public humiliation to get the mind back in the game.....
It has virgin cartouches and looks to be in a non-refurb'd stock. Unfortunately, there are only 4 pics. The sick thing is, this rifle only sold for $321. At any rate, I'll keep the chart above unchanged, unless provenance is otherwise warranted.
Repeat after myself....
I will pay closer attention to the friggin obvious before I post,
I will pay closer attention to the friggin obvious before I post,
I will pay closer attention to the friggin obvious before I post,
I will pay closer attention to the friggin obvious before I post.....
There, now I feel better. Nothing like public humiliation to get the mind back in the game.....
Last edited by Drago on Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
OLD OUTLAW
- Posts: 1270
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:31 pm
- Location: Eastern Iowa
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
Drago, I'm surprised in you. Download the 1st picture, blow it up and look at the muzzle end. It's been cut off behind the original front sight. It's a pure plain chop job done by Bubba. Appears they may have threaded the barrel for that flash hider shall I say. Then fit it with some after market sight. Look at the cleaning rod, it just hangs out in open air. This is a Bubba gun that should not even be counted as far as I am concerned. If there had been one chance in HXXX I would have bought it. Now, why do you think that price was so low? Also, pic #2. Blow it up and look at the end of that receiver cover. Sorry, no distinguishable Serial Number. Possibly scrubbed off and painted. It isn't worth over $280 to me tops!
Happiness is owning Swedish Mausers!
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
Yeah, you should be surprised. Those are noob things to miss. Don't know what I was thinking. Apparently, I wasn't... *sulks*
Well, good, I'm pleased, because you still get the honor of having the only Letter "I" non-refurb sold all of this year!!
Well, good, I'm pleased, because you still get the honor of having the only Letter "I" non-refurb sold all of this year!!
-
OLD OUTLAW
- Posts: 1270
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:31 pm
- Location: Eastern Iowa
Re: How Rare is my Russian SKS?
The I letter Drago referred to is a classic example of how these fine Russian rifles, even a rare one like it was, are being destroyed by Bubba and the video gamers.
My guess is that before it was listed it was fit out as a Tacti-Cool. It appears also the fit of the mag. is gaped too much. Most likely the stock was shaved to fit a Tapco type of 30 round mag. The guy who listed this rifle had a reason not to post more pics. If anyone invests in a Russian, please study it carefully before you buy. Do not be surprised if this rifle comes back on GB in the next month or less. When you jump on a low price for a Russian like in this case, buyer beware!
Unless you have done your homework well. Often you can find an original Russian SKS at a very low price because the seller did not list enough pictures in his presentation. BUT, in my experience, there are more sellers only showing what they want you to see like in this case. Always ask for more pics if you are not sure. Also ask every question you can think of from the seller. Same as with a rare looking Moisin. Good hunting guys!
My guess is that before it was listed it was fit out as a Tacti-Cool. It appears also the fit of the mag. is gaped too much. Most likely the stock was shaved to fit a Tapco type of 30 round mag. The guy who listed this rifle had a reason not to post more pics. If anyone invests in a Russian, please study it carefully before you buy. Do not be surprised if this rifle comes back on GB in the next month or less. When you jump on a low price for a Russian like in this case, buyer beware!
Unless you have done your homework well. Often you can find an original Russian SKS at a very low price because the seller did not list enough pictures in his presentation. BUT, in my experience, there are more sellers only showing what they want you to see like in this case. Always ask for more pics if you are not sure. Also ask every question you can think of from the seller. Same as with a rare looking Moisin. Good hunting guys!
Happiness is owning Swedish Mausers!