The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

Found this in a facebook group im in. The gentleman I purchased it off said it was a milsurp sniper, however I don't see any plugs inside the receiver where they normally are, and im not seeing any plugs in the stock either. My research shows this stock is postwar refit as the dog leash eyelets for the sling look to be pressed in and the ones i see on 7.62x54r.net show the 30's era stocks have the eyelets retained via screws. All the numbers match even though that doesn't say much given the sheer amount made. It is 1935 Tula Arsenal Hex receiver has the Tula arsenal mark with a C and crylic R just above the mark. Ive been told that those marks specify that particular rifle was chosen as a sniper but I've not seen other indications showing that it seen time as a sniper (shims, or the marks under the stock) If anyone can clarify my thoughts that would be great, I am even thinking it might not have seen any action as the bluing is still on the top of the receiver, and Im not seeing much if any physical ware. I'm not sure what direction I will go with this particular Mosin. I'm considering staying with the original wartime look, but then again I might consider going and making a modern sporter and Im not talking about bubbafying it out (will probably get crucified by some here for that idea) and pick up another Mosin later. All in all i paid a total of $200 for it, it come with all the tools, and single port oil can, and 75 or so rounds of modern era silver bear ammo. I also managed to get a 440 round can of milsurp ammo with a manufacture date of 1971, off my cousin for $75 after i reminded him of the favor he owed me. Pics are below.

I stripped it down and removed as much of the cosmoline that I could get off with hot water and Dawn dish soap, the rest will have to come out from getting shot, cleaned and warming up in a summer sun. The bore looks to be in pretty decent shape, I didn't see any pitting that I could make out, but there is quite of bit of cosmoline inside. The stock looks to be in great shape, no cracks, not laminated, its a solid piece of wood. This is another reason why I believe it is post war era. My thoughts are this rifle come in off the lines and was in bad shape, the soviet's changed the stock and threw it in storage where it sat for 50-60 years. The gentleman i purchased it from said he bought it a couple of years ago and never shot it, which is obvious by all the cosmoline.

Ok so give it to me, berate me for thinking of making this a modern sporter. Condemn me for thinking if this was chosen for sniper use but never seen action that I would destroy such a nice piece of military history. "Its ok I can hack it, really I can hack it"




This is a mark on the left side of the stock just under the rear sight. Not sure what it indicates. Any ideas are appreciated.

Another set of unknown marks on the left side buttstock


There is a mark on the bolt next to the serial number, not sure what it indicates

This mark is on the underside of the stock in the area of the rear sight again, not sure what it indicates.

It is marked as a sniper so that part is right. If it did make in to sniper service it would have been a PE or PEM sniper and would have the holes up on the receiver farther. You may have to take it out of the stock to see where it was plugged and welded.

Oh and Welcome to the forum.

I had it out of the stock and can not ascertain any plugs or weld marks what so ever. The hex portion of the receiver does not have any grind marks as it has nice tight corners. Ill take it out quick and add another picture of the sides.

Nice Looking MOSIN,,,,,,,,,,,,


regards,
AL

They can be really tough to see. I missed mine the first time too. Use a flashlight. Welcome to the forum.

Nice rifle! maybe your rifle never was actually turned into a sniper after it was selected...

Welcome to the forum ..Your rifle isn't post war era , it is a post war refurb. It is an ex-sniper that went through an arsenal refurb after the war and was then put into long term storage for future use. It is a very nice example and quite collectible as it is an early example of an ex PE or PEM sniper. Take the time to research what this rifle may have been through then enjoy it as it is.

This is a preservation forum so you definitely would get crucified for doing it and showing it here. I would suggest leaving it be as it absolutely has seen war. The soviets needed all the rifles they could get and more. It is possible it was selected for sniper service, whether it was put to that service is not definite yet till we can find the mount holes. There is a lot of history in these old rifles and to sporterize them is nothing short of a tragedy to most of us including me. I would hope you spend a little time on th eforum and check out some of the rifles here and see why we think they need to be preserved. Of course it is your rifle though.

That is too nice a rifle.......I hope you enjoy it as is.................

Well i stripped it down again and I am not seeing any point in which is had a scope mount attached anywhere. pics below. And I totally understand where you are coming from on sporting it out. I am only 35 yrs old but I appreciate these old war era rifles and what they can and have done. I wish the Russians did better at keeping records on these old rifles as it would be such a great conversation piece to my future collection of WWII milsurp rifles. I am pretty sure I will keep it as is as my wife says so. Im also looking to get my hands on a SKS, Lee Enfield, Mauser, Kar, Springfield, and a M1 Garand. There are so many others that can be added to the list but those are the ones that i see as the most interesting. I plan to stick around as I do enjoy learning about these old rifles.

I dont see any mounting points where a scope mount was placed.



This mark is OE732, Any ideas what this means?


Not sure what these marks signify, im assuming armors marks for work completed.

Also, would it be a tragedy to find and place an old scope on this rifle? Is that something that is expensive? And is that possible with such a short unslanted 3oclock bolt handle?

Pretty hard for my old eyes to see but it doesn't look like I can see any welded over holes. Your list is a good one and there are such rifles in the other sections here on the forum. You might have to consider getting the SKS and garand first as they are trying to outlaw those. The Kar98 is a toughy to find and could be a tad pricey but they are a sweet piece of history.

Gunner75 wrote:Also, would it be a tragedy to find and place an old scope on this rifle? Is that something that is expensive? And is that possible with such a short unslanted 3oclock bolt handle?

Welcome to the forum. The simple answer is yes it would be a trajedy to try to make it into a sniper. It is worth more as it is then the sum of the parts you would put on it. It would never be historically correct. It's collectable in it's own right the way it is now.

That would be a high price item and not condoned here. The real PE snipers are very high priced and really hard to find, and I am not sure if they are making repo mounts. There are mosin snipers available for purchase still but they are PU snipers and run in the 800 range. There are already plenty of repo snipers on Gunbroker. A real unmessed with PE sniper marked rifle or ex sniper is worth more then a repo made sniper. The older then 1942 snipers and ex snipers are a rarer item.

Well my thoughts were doing one of the mounts from jmeck as it doesnt require any modification of the stock or gun set up. Its just a thin steel band that wraps in under the receiver inside the stock then bolts onto a high rise mount that allows the stock sights to still be used. the mount then allows for a weaver mount to be attached to it to facilitate the mounting of a scout scope or pistol scope or a modern scope.



please keep in mind, my intention is to keep the original configuration without modifying it. But it would be nice to beable to go to my local range and be able to shoot the distances accurately with an older rifle and still keep it original without changing it.

Gunner75 wrote:Well my thoughts were doing one of the mounts from jmeck as it doesnt require any modification of the stock or gun set up. Its just a thin steel band that wraps in under the receiver inside the stock then bolts onto a high rise mount that allows the stock sights to still be used. the mount then allows for a weaver mount to be attached to it to facilitate the mounting of a scout scope or pistol scope or a modern scope.



please keep in mind, my intention is to keep the original configuration without modifying it. But it would be nice to beable to go to my local range and be able to shoot the distances accurately with an older rifle and still keep it original without changing it.

That's fine and you'll find a few here that use them. I'm getting older and my eye sight is failing so I understand. The theme of this forum is preservation, no permanent alterations of any kind. If it can be put back to the way it was it's fine. Don't think we're jumping you but we get a lot of new members that either don't read the forum's rules or they don't think it's very important. Trust me I can't see the sights on some of my rifles, like the Mausers. Those are just a blur at any distance for me. I have a PU sniper and it's nice to be able to see a target at 100yds.

I also am blind but I prefer the irons sights to scopes. I have maybe 50 rifles and not one has a scope. You might try to shoot it first with the irons to see how you do. As Weldon says as long as it can be put back it is fine on the forum. Not sure about the jmeck if it needs a bent bolt or not.

yeah no doubt. for Milsurp rifles my hope is to keep them as historically accurate as possible. Thats why i asked about the PE/PEM addition. I though maybe since it would be historically accurate for what that version was used with it would be ok as cost isnt an issue for me. Ive got no issue spending 10 times over the value of a rifle to make it as accurate as possible if that would include buying a 70 year old military surplus rifle scope at 700+ then im fine with that. I know the Mosin isnt the most expensive or even the most accurate of the day, they are very nice and they just work like nothing else.

Gunner75 wrote:yeah no doubt. for Milsurp rifles my hope is to keep them as historically accurate as possible. Thats why i asked about the PE/PEM addition. I though maybe since it would be historically accurate for what that version was used with it would be ok as cost isnt an issue for me. Ive got no issue spending 10 times over the value of a rifle to make it as accurate as possible if that would include buying a 70 year old military surplus rifle scope at 700+ then im fine with that. I know the Mosin isnt the most expensive or even the most accurate of the day, they are very nice and they just work like nothing else.

That's the point we're trying to make. It's histroically accurate the way it is. Even if you tried to put a period PE or PEM scope on it it would then no longer be historically accurate because you did it and not the military arsenal that made them. The history of these rifles is in the way they left the arsenal the last time. The fact that this one was stamped to be put in sniper duty but was never actually assembeld as a sniper is it's history. That's where the theme of preservation comes in. The rifle is what it is and try to to make it what it might have been would not make it correct. If you want an historically correct PU sniper that's verified as authentic this is what you want. http://www.rguns.net/rifles/rifles-bolt.shtml These are universally accepted as correct by anyone that knows these rifles.