The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

I've been reading on line about carrying a concealed weapon and what ammo to you in it. The point of most of this is how to keep your butt covered if you have a shooting incident. There was some interesting reading on line and I've had to changed some of my opinions as to what to put in my carry weapons. First thing I'll say is I carry a Ruger Security Six 4 inch stainless and I had always thought the load to use was a 158 grain hollow point. My other carry was my 1911 Colt 45 ACP this I was using 200 grain hollow points.
Well the end result is I was (per the experts) using the wrong load. For my 357 they recommend 125 grain hollow points and a 185 grain hollow point in my Colt. The reasoning was "over penetration" the heavier bullet the more momentum that projectile will carry. So after this I have moved my thinking as I hadn't given the idea of hitting an innocent bystander behind the target that much thought, I figured if it was that type of situation I'd hold fire. Now the experts brought up another interesting problem in these shooting situations ad they pointed out that you can get "tunnel vision" in a shooting incident. I hadn't thought of this either, but this is a problem in any emergency where fight or flight is involved.
Next point that I found interesting was the use of hand loaded ammunition. There is nothing illegal about carrying hand loads but this could be a point of contention after the fact in court as this could be used as a way to put you in the "Crazy Gun Carrying Lunatic" group. So I have to think about that one as I load all my own ammo I can and I now find in a carry weapon this could be a point of contention in court.
So I am asking what do you use in that carry gun of yours? How do you feel about what I have stated in this post and do you agree or disagree with these guys. If you are interested in this subject google it and do some reading. Some pretty good information on this subject is out there and see if you come to the same conclusions I did.
Another thing I wonder if there would be any interest in a CCW or CPL forum here, what do you admin guys and Dolk think of this as a possible subject.
Burrhead

Depends on the time of year in Arizona, much easier to carry in the cooler months. In winter usually a Colt Cobra though for about six years I was packing a nickle Colt Govt model .380 it was slim, light, 100% reliable and well had an element of class to it. After seeing asking prices approaching a thousand dollars at a show this summer I retired that one from CCW duty. In the summer when it's very hot often I'll just slip my little Colt Junior in my pocket for short trips.

I use a P 64 with fiocci ammo. Here the police reload their own ammo (have it reloaded) so i don't know why that would make a difference, sounds like a scare tactic to me.

I carry a 1911 with Winchester white box. I don't think I am under gunned or under ammoed.

For years I have carreed my PA-63 in 9mm Makarov. My carry load is a 94 grain JHP made by Wolf in the Silver Bear. Just lately I have been carring a newly aquired S&W .40 just for a change. I use Remington 180 grain Golden Saber in JHP.

I carry a SW40VE loaded with 180gr Remington UMC JHP's. Not overly concerned about over or under-pentration, just taking down the BG. Fired some 155gr, seemed to take me longer to get the muzzle back on target so ended up with the heavier round.

Here's a couple of links to articles I have read recently on this subject. See what you think about what these people have written on the topic of defensive ammunition.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defen ... ENETRATION

I see in the one article they suggest using 7.63 mauser ammo in your tok or in the cz 52. Can't remember who was asking that but there is more evidence of it being used in 7.62 guns.

Problem I ran into using the Mauser reload data in the Tok round was failure to operate correctly. That is my load for my Broom Handle would not operate the action far enough in the out of battery stroke to eject the fired round, so I have to question that. Also the cartridge as I size it for the Mauser has a tendency to not feed properly. I think the concern is over penetration with that hot Tok round. I'll find out more when I get my 90 grain bullet I have on order.

Soon as my CCW shows up (any day now!) I'll use my Taurus PT145 Millineum Pro .45 ACP. I will load it with Hornady Critical Defense 185's until I can locate some 230 grain Critical Defense rounds. If you mean how do you handload for it, YOU DON'T!
No less an expert than Massad Ayoob has continually advised this for many, many years. Sure, those 125 HP's stuffed on top of a compressed load of Blue Dot packs a wallop (I used to load just such a load) and would be a potent SD round, but look at it from the Prosecuting Attorney's point of view:
"Mr. Burrhead here, not satisfied with the lethality engineered into today's 'cop-killer' ammunition, went one step further and concocted his own death-dealing bullets for his .357 MAGNUM he used to gun down poor Johnny B. Lawless when he mistaken entered mr. Burrhead's home, innocently mistaking it for his after a few cold refreshments after a hard day."

There is a reason Massad Ayoob advises to always use factory ammo for HD/SD; He's seen a lot of trails both as cop and expert witness, and knows such things happen.

Guess I should read the whole post before answering.

My other options are:

RIA M1911 with same load as PT145

CZ-82 with Silver Bear 95 gr HP and Glaser Blue Tips.

Colt Cobra with .Speer Gold Dot 130 HP load for snubbies.

Cobray/Leinad .45/.410 Double Derringer with Win PX1 .410 round and or Win Silvertip .45 LC.

Iver Johnson Cadet with CCI stingers.

Entropy, you have come to the same conclusion I did about the use of hand loads for HD and SD after I read these articles and others. I found a few posts on another forum that was written by a lawyer and pointed out the same things you have. Massad has been a real proponent of the use of hand loads for self defense, but he also pointed out the possible failure of a hand load to fire (i.e. bad primer) as another reason. Another thing was theo use fresh ammunition. He said it all has a long shelf life but to buy a new box frequently and shoot the other surf up in practice.
So I have to think about this as I continue to gain knowledge from the experts out there. That is also the reason I started this thread, all of us who have chosen to carry have to be aware of the possible ramifications of acting to defend life, family and home. Sure you may be in the right but as the Officer who was a one of my instructors pointed out "in any shooting incident the first officer on the scene is going to treat you like a felon until he has the situation under control" also to expect an aggressive reaction from the office when he shows up as he gains knowledge of what the circumstances were when it all came off. Another thing that was brought up was, if you shoot you shoot to kill anything else is asking for trouble down the road from your assailant. Anyway I am considering other classes as well to try and teach myself how and when to react properly.
Burrhead

Star M40 (40 S&W) loaded with 185Grain Rem HPs

Like the firestar been looking at one here but has no clip

desdem12 wrote:Like the firestar been looking at one here but has no clip

Magazines are easy to find.
http://www.hoosiergunworks.com/images/s ... sw_new.jpg

millman wrote:Star M40 (40 S&W) loaded with 185Grain Rem HPs

Millman this is a caliber I have looked at a few times and came close to purchasing. I don't consider the 9X19 (9mm Luger) a really good defensive choice. I have owned three 9mm hand guns so far in my life and I'll probably end up owning a few more. But the 40 S&W has a pretty good reputation as a defensive round. I think that some day I shall buy one. Nice looking weapon if I say so.

The only drawback I have found to the Star is the weight, It is all steel, and weighs like 30 oz. This is not a bad feature when it comes to recoil. This little pistol soaks it up pretty well. Here is a pic that will give you some scale.

Wisconsin just passed the Concealed carry into law & the Wife & I will be getting our CC permits soon. Wife just ordered a Ruger SP101 in .327 Federal Magnum today. She wants a new night front sight & will also go with the Crimson Trace Laser Grips as well. She handled one today all decked out in .38 Special & wanted it.

For me I plan on starting off with my CZ-82 with hollowpoints. Other considerations are my Bersa 83, Colt Combat Commander in 9mm & my Remington R1.

I knew she'd like it! The CT on it will be a boon; besides giving her confidence when the chips are down, that red dot on a perp's chest will make most of 'em think twice.

Now you need .327 Fed. Mag. dies; you can load .32 H&R Mag. and .32 S&W Long (& Short, if you can find the cases) with them. And you'll be able to load .32 S&W Longs for your M1895 Nagant also.

entropy wrote:I knew she'd like it! The CT on it will be a boon; besides giving her confidence when the chips are down, that red dot on a perp's chest will make most of 'em think twice.

Now you need .327 Fed. Mag. dies; you can load .32 H&R Mag. and .32 S&W Long (& Short, if you can find the cases) with them. And you'll be able to load .32 S&W Longs for your M1895 Nagant also.

Best choice for her I think. Like you say... A lot of options. I may not see it too often though... She filled out the 4473 & as far as she's concerned it's ALL Hers. Kind of proud of her actually.

Either my service Glock 22 or my personally owned Glock 27. Issued ammunition is mandated for carry and we use Winchester "Ranger" 180 gr SXT (.40S&W)