91 30 shank markings.

[Junk Yard Dog]

The Cold War may be recent events to me, but people do collect the relics of that time. USSR and DDR souvenirs, fallout shelter signs, and Soviet Mosin refurbs. The Mosin refurb is definitely a Cold War era collectable, and they have a very wide collector following, as much as any other area of milsurp collecting.

[djbuck1]

I would never be so presumptuous as to attempt to pronounce on what "is" and "is not" collectible, any more than I would presume to tell another man what bourbon to drink, cigar to smoke, car to drive or woman to . . . pursue.

[Darryl]

OP I have the same, a 1940 Tula with sniper proofs but doesn't seem to ever have been drilled, oddly mine has a high wall 1940 Tula receiver but no prefix on the serial number, does yours have a prefix?

Refurbs defy logic and over any reasonable period of time defy any short range patterns you may wrongly try to apply. Oddities may apply in short range spurts so if you want to waste your time and apply them have at it. Just keep in mind they were assembled basically from piles of parts renumbered at times to match with varying degrees of parts staying together. You can not even guarantee the receiver is with the same barrel it was with originally with any great amount of surety. They are absolutely great buys even at the inflated prices sellers are quoting today and I shoot and enjoy many of them today but I don't care what arguments you use they are not collector rifles because of the way they are assembled and marketed. So enjoy your rifle for what it is as many of us do, myself included. Bill

Just because "YOU" don't collect them, doesn't mean they are not collected by others. Bill, you have to think past you own hand.Sorry you don't feel they are collectible, but most the members here think they are. They do have sets of rules, those rules are different then other collected Mosins. But things happen to them in a specific order and not by "accident". How they were refurbished is pretty clear, and done by the Arsenals of the USSR.

If you applied this same logic to Garands, then they are refurbished .....every one of them....and so are the M1 carbines. All mixed parts and would not be considered "collectible". But I doubt you are going to tell us that is the case.

If you have one than one person collecting them... and collecting more then one,.... you have a collection. Now, not a lot of "collectors" of higher end Mosins collect refurbs, but even they do collect some (won't mention some of our larger collectors here that do). Prices of these Mosins are going up partly because "collectors" are taking them off the market, and some shooters, along with getting a little harder to find and buy now.

Seems to me Mausers that once sold as crap here in the states for $50 or less and not considered "collectible" in the 50's, 60's, and 70's (that were preserved) are certainly now considered collectible. Even with mis-matched parts and bolt, they bring good money....NOW.

So collect what you see fit to collect. Sit back and watch the prices go up on it over the years.

I remember buying refurbs for $49 each (sometimes lower). I wish I had collected a truck load of those right now...... Heck I bought two T53's form the guy in Arizona for $29 each. Not the best shape, but I bet I could sell them for a bunch more then that now....

PS, I've seen people collect beannie babies and the like. Yes, it collapsed, but only because it was a product that never stopped being made. But they collected them. People collect what they want to, not what they are told to (or told not to).


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Markings ....... http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/mis ... index.html

Shank marks .... http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/bar ... index.html


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[bunkysdad]

Case in point: sa1911(Steve) has collected at least 80 refurbs if I am not mistaken because he will sell someone 80 of them for 259.95 each.

[zeebill]

Ok so they are collectible and you concentrate on collecting only them. I guess I dabble in collecting them myself because I have a few of what were the odder ones when I latched on to them. Then I noticed they came in all varieties too numerous to class and I thought this maybe a cheaper way to do this gun collecting but there are so many of them and they change with each wave of them that comes in so maybe some entity is catering to our whims and I thought the older rifles can't be messed with too much but these can and I disposed of any liking for them as collectibles. If all are spit shiny new they can have anything the refurber wants on them and the more the merrier. So we advanced through waves of variations that defy common sense to me and eventually we got to the Molots which showed me modern advancements in fabrication and what may be taken by me as recent work on them not covered up at all. Still these are taken by many as refurbs done many years ago in the heat of the cold war.

So if you follow these thoughts make your own decisions as I have and pay $250+ for one on the modern example refurbs and collect them wildly as many of you have but don't make fun or lack the respect of my thoughts for I have indeed been around this obsession that masquerades as a hobby for a few years more than many of you. I respect your thoughts on them but I don't have to agree and reserve the right to criticize openly like our society is supposed to encourage and grow from, although I kind of wonder some days. Just keep one thing in perspective I hear many of you making comments about say an M91/24 going for say $1000 or so but you fail to realize I am feeling the say way about a refurb going for $300. This to me is still a $75 rifle I bought many years ago in both cases and the difference in those prices is what I base what I consider collectible or not worth it.

A number of years ago a buddy died and his wife sold off his collection which for the most part were really nice refurbs. I made offers of $150 for two of them and took them home. One was a 1943 M44 and the other was a triple date MO 91/30. One I still have and the other is long gone. I will let you guess which one I still have and hope it tempers your judgment on what you choose to collect and what to basically ignore. If it doesn't then so be it as it is indeed your choice. Bill

[Darryl]

Ok so they are collectible and you concentrate on collecting only them. I guess I dabble in collecting them myself because I have a few of what were the odder ones when I latched on to them. Then I noticed they came in all varieties too numerous to class and I thought this maybe a cheaper way to do this gun collecting but there are so many of them and they change with each wave of them that comes in so maybe some entity is catering to our whims and I thought the older rifles can't be messed with too much but these can and I disposed of any liking for them as collectibles. If all are spit shiny new they can have anything the refurber wants on them and the more the merrier. So we advanced through waves of variations that defy common sense to me and eventually we got to the Molots which showed me modern advancements in fabrication and what may be taken by me as recent work on them not covered up at all. Still these are taken by many as refurbs done many years ago in the heat of the cold war.

Your problem is, you assume too many things...like, "someone" is altering them in the background, but we know exactly how they were handled in Russia and the USSR. There is no mystery to any of it. You can't just pull a theory out of the air without any facts or proof. Where is the proof that someone in Russia (or even here) are in the back room altering anything? There is no proof.Fact is, we have people that have gone there and seen these sealed in the crates.

I will concede to Molot rifles. They were supplied by a company with a "known reputation" for altering Mosin rifles in the past. But most of these refurbs did not come through Molot. Only a small portion.

I respect your thoughts on them but I don't have to agree and reserve the right to criticize openly like our society is supposed to encourage and grow from, although I kind of wonder some days. Just keep one thing in perspective I hear many of you making comments about say an M91/24 going for say $1000 or so but you fail to realize I am feeling the say way about a refurb going for $300. This to me is still a $75 rifle I bought many years ago in both cases and the difference in those prices is what I base what I consider collectible or not worth it.

No one here is stopping you from discussing these rifles here. But to paint the refurbs as "not collectible" Is not a discussion, it is a statement. Tell us why exactly why you feel that way with your facts and proof, and we will all listen. Price.....price has nothing to do with collect ability. Just because you don't think they should be going for that price, doesn't set the prices. The price is set by those who are buying them, not selling them. You are lucky you have all the refurbs you need and got them when the price was $75, but the reality is, they don't sell for $75 any more. Just like those Mausers are not selling for $25 like they did back in the 50's. That has nothing to do with collecting.

A number of years ago a buddy died and his wife sold off his collection which for the most part were really nice refurbs. I made offers of $150 for two of them and took them home. One was a 1943 M44 and the other was a triple date MO 91/30. One I still have and the other is long gone. I will let you guess which one I still have and hope it tempers your judgment on what you choose to collect and what to basically ignore. If it doesn't then so be it as it is indeed your choice. Bill

It is always our choice what we collect. Not what someone tells us what we have to. I can show you a lot of other forums that say nothing in the Mosin family is collectible and they are all just crap......So, do we listen to them too? I don't think so.

People collect what they can get hold of, or what they can afford to. Makes no sense to collect only one rifle because that is all you can afford, or because that is what someone says you have to collect.

Bill, you have a nice collection but you problem is you got it a long time ago like a lot of us did. So what do you say to these new guys that want to collect Mosins and refurbs are in their range.....get lost? Some times it sounds like you are the person trying to stop discussion on collecting....... because it doesn't meet your standards.

[hr]

If they are not "collectible", then I guess it wouldn't matter if you altered them, or drilled and tapped them because they are not collectible and of no value. That.....is the opposite of what these forums are about and here for.

This forum is for all Mosins. All types. All type collections, and all type collectors. I think 7.62x54r.net is more of a "restricted" forum, and that is their right to limit the focus of their discussion. These forums are not "restricted" by anyone.



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[Junk Yard Dog]

There are items in my collection that are currently valued at many thousands of dollars, there are some that might be worth ten bucks, each is a piece of history and is as treasured by me for that reason alone no matter what somebody else might pay for it. I don't care if it's a 1943 Izhevsk 91/30 post WW2 Soviet refurbished Mosin, or a 1888 Springfield with known Span-Am war history, these are all milsurps, all pieces of history that we are privileged to be able to own and handle. I do not hold one to be more of a piece of history than another, they are all from times past.

Once upon a time I had these discussions with the Old timers who got me started, they didn't hold with the idea that the weapons of the 20th century were collectable and late 19th were barely so if they were post States War. They laughed at me for collecting US M1903's and Garands as these were "new" rifles, not old enough to be collectable as far as they were concerned. To them Brown Bess muskets and Spencer carbines were true milsurp collectables. These collectors are long gone now, and I could see their point, nobody likes it when the relics of their youth are paraded around as ancient antiques of a bygone time. These guys were WW1 and WW2 vets, at that time milsurp collectors made up a tiny fraction of gun collectors. Back then if you wanted respect then you collected vintage Winchesters, first gen Colt SAA's, original front stuffers, or the aforementioned Spencer, Henry, or Sharps . You did not, DID NOT approach these men with a Carcano, Arisaka, or Mauser, not unless you wanted your ass handed to you, these were the weapons of THE ENEMY, and universally accepted as crap not collectable, good only for cheap throw away hunting rifles. You don't want to know their opinion of things like Mosins. 40 years later we have a different opinion of what is collectable, a wider appreciation for early 20th century world history that comes with not having lived it first hand and we do not have the prejudices that come with having faced these enemys in combat during war. Those men were the products of their time, I have enormous respect for them, most of them forgot more practical knowledge of shooting and guns that I will ever know, but this is a different era with different attitudes.

Many of our new collectors are of an age were they either don't remember the Cold War or were born after it entirely. They can look at a Mosin and not associate it with the hated Russian Bolshevik bear who wanted to bury us and enslave the free world. They didn't slog it out with the North Koreans and Chinese in 1950-53, the closest they have come to Vietnam is the History channel on cable TV. They see the Mosin only as a cool milsurp rifle, they don't need to hear that their rifle isn't collectable any more than I needed to hear it about my 1903's back in the day , they are all collectable and legitimately so.