Sorting out the Uberti Dragoons?

[bunkysdad]

That is a stout load and lots of great looking smoke especially on a windless day.

[entropy]

The charges out of my Walker were not far off my .44 Mag loads. I had a friend that had a Second Model Dragoon, and the cylinder was smaller, though still bigger than an 1860.



L to R:

My .50 Traditions Hawken. Took a doe with it at 125 yards that fall.
My Walker
Friend Mark's Cabela's (Pietta) 1860
My 1851 .44 brass frame
Mark's .36 Rogers & Spencer
Mark's Bowie knife
Mark's .50 Lyman Plains rifle

That's me on the deck of Mark's cabin in northern MN with my Walker in a period pose. Pay no attention to the fact the table is from a camper.

I'd get the Third Model were I you. I still would like another Walker or a First Model someday.

[hudson29]

The third model was $60 dearer. That's a lot to pay for a rounded trigger guard!

[hudson29]

Yes, they had a large cylinder capacity, the Walker was capable of packing the same amount of powder as the Springfield rifle musket. Today the manufacturer will tell you to use 22-30 grains or FFFG, a load that requires the use of a filler to raise the bullet up to the proper just inside the chamber position. Back in the day if they lacked paper cartridges they just filled the cylinder almost to the top and stuffed the bullet down on top. I keep the charge in my Dragoon to around 40-45 grains of FFG, and use cream 'O' wheat cereal to fill the remaining cylinder space. Use wonder wads under the bullet, or seal the top of the bullet with grease to prevent chainfires, and never leave an air gap between powder charge and bullet.

Yikes! When I shot my Walker I just dumped the recommended amount of powder into the cylinders and rammed the ball home on top of a wonder wad. No filler was used and I seated the ball as far down as the rammer wanted to push it. I can't recall if the ball was stopped by anything or if the loading lever was just at the bottom of its travel. I'm not one who would care to try "hot loads" so the amount of powder would have only been that recommended by the book.

Happily, nothing bad happened. The Walker went boom when my finger asked it to and some paper downrange got some additional ventilation. I remember the experience fondly but choose other revolvers for other days at the range.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Leaving an air gap between black powder and the bullet can cause a detonation, this is an extremely dangerous situation. Never guess that the bullet is firmly seated on the charge, if there is any question just add more powder of stick three or four wonder wads in there under the bullet.

[Darryl]

Leaving an air gap between black powder and the bullet can cause a detonation, this is an extremely dangerous situation. Never guess that the bullet is firmly seated on the charge, if there is any question just add more powder of stick three or four wonder wads in there under the bullet.

He didn't leave a "air pocket" between the powder and the ball. He just seated it deeper into the cylinder which is OK, but not recommended. I've done that when I got my Walker at first. The rammer will seat it all the way to the powder (at least, mine did). Better load with a filler.......

I've never shot real light loads in it. I'm not sure if the rammer would seat it all the way down????? Jim probably would know that.

Wonder Wades are the only way to go on those revolvers. Unless you want to put Crisco over the loads (messy). I've had a chain fire, Didn't bother me as much as the guy standing next to me! Although, it was a little tougher to hold onto that Walker with a chain fire!


Dolk

[hudson29]

He didn't leave a "air pocket" between the powder and the ball. He just seated it deeper into the cylinder which is OK, but not recommended. I've done that when I got my Walker at first. The rammer will seat it all the way to the powder (at least, mine did). Better load with a filler.......

<snip>

Wonder Wades are the only way to go on those revolvers. Unless you want to put Crisco over the loads (messy). I've had a chain fire, Didn't bother me as much as the guy standing next to me! Although, it was a little tougher to hold onto that Walker with a chain fire!
Dolk

What is the problem with seating the ball deep into the cylinder?

Tell us a bit about the chainfire? Were you using Wonder Wads or Crisco? How many cylinders detonated? Was the revolver hurt?

[Darryl]

He didn't leave a "air pocket" between the powder and the ball. He just seated it deeper into the cylinder which is OK, but not recommended. I've done that when I got my Walker at first. The rammer will seat it all the way to the powder (at least, mine did). Better load with a filler.......

<snip>

Wonder Wades are the only way to go on those revolvers. Unless you want to put Crisco over the loads (messy). I've had a chain fire, Didn't bother me as much as the guy standing next to me! Although, it was a little tougher to hold onto that Walker with a chain fire!
Dolk

What is the problem with seating the ball deep into the cylinder?

Tell us a bit about the chainfire? Were you using Wonder Wads or Crisco? How many cylinders detonated? Was the revolver hurt?

rammer sometime may only push the ball partway down the cylinder on very lite loads. That means the rammer bottoms out before the ball is seated hard onto the powder leaving an air space (very bad news).

revolver not damaged because it is designed to allow a chain fire. Look at the front of your cylinder, there is a "way out" for every chamber in the cylinder just in case this happens. Keeps the revolver from blowing up. However, two cylinders going off at once in a Walker (loaded heavy) is a lot to handle, and one ball goes down the barrel, and the other goes out the side of the revolver! Never let anyone stand to the side of you when firing a revolver. Not even a modern one.



This is not me, and it is not a Walker, but it give a little info.

[BBvideo 425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=711821_SNq8[/BBvideo]

[hudson29]

The 2nd Model Dragoon from Dixie arrived today and it is a very nice HEAVY revolver. I understand it is 3.5 lbs so it is considerably lighter than the Walker. I like the feel of it and look forward to shooting it. It seems comfortable in the hand and that matters to me.

Inside the case was the usual assortment of paperwork and one additional slip I had not seen before. It said basically that because the Walkers & Dragoons were so large & heavy they MAY adjust themselves too tight on the barrel wedge and that this MIGHT prevent the revolver from functioning correctly.

Sure enough, this brand new Dragoon was frozen solid but having read the slip of paper I didn't hit the panic button just yet. I went into the shop and got out a small plastic hammer and drove the wedge out then used the loading lever to remove the barrel. Sure enough, the action freed up and operated as it should.

I put the barrel back on and tapped the wedge back in and the Dragoon froze up again! I drove the wedge out and it freed up without removing the barrel. I tapped it in again a bit lighter this time and still the action was frozen.

Another time the wedge was driven out and LIGHTLY tapped in. Everything works fine. I lightly tapped some more and everything seems OK. This revolver has a great action and a nice trigger pull. It should be a fine shooter.

I do wonder about the fussyness with the barrel wedge, however. I never wailed on it, just a few solid taps even to start. I wonder if this thing might shoot loose? It will bear close watching at the range . . .

Pictures after I shoot some!

[bunkysdad]

Wait for pictures? Oh man, I am not good at waiting for pictures. Can you lay it out on the table or something and snap a few? I just know that is gonna be a beauty. I really want one. Did you get the Dixie Catalog? There is another 3.5 pounds. [emoji14]

[Junk Yard Dog]

The wedge warning must be something new, none of mine had such a warning or the problem. Pictures?

[hudson29]

I'll shoot some pictures and post them Friday. It is a beauty.

The more I think about the wedge issue the more I have to think Uberti probably made a batch of these machined wrong. I can't imagine these revolvers needing such care in the field.

[Junk Yard Dog]

They didn't and they shouldn't, I am shocked that Uberti would let such pass. The company changed hands some time ago becoming part of the Beretta family, Beretta is one of the oldest gunmaker's on earth. Uberti has long been considered as the premier producer of BP revolver replicas, even providing parts to Colt, it could be some things have changed since I bought mine almost 20 years ago. Uberti's edge over Pietta and the other smaller makers was in the fit and finish, it was always just a step above, but otherwise the other gunmakers products all functioned well. Over the last 10 years or so Pietta closed that gap considerably by modernizing their production and quality control. Stuff like the wedge thing I would expect of a Pietta revolver bought in the 80's, never from Uberti. I would call the company and raise hell, they sold you a brand new in the box firearm that will not function. If you bought a new Colt AR and the charging handle wouldn't pull would you put up with that? That they would let such a major defect leave the factory, and even warn you about it speaks volumes to me about the state of things at Uberti today.

[hudson29]

I bought the Uberti Walker 20 or so years ago and there was never an issue with it. Here is the note that was right on top of the other paperwork included with the box:



Note the spelling of the word "too" and the lack of signature. It makes it hard to say if this message came from Dixie Gun Works or from Uberti. It is certainly unprofessional.

I'll have to think about this situation. I'm certainly not happy about receiving a defective revolver but am willing to accept some defects as a normal part of living. If this gun shoots well and the poorly fitted wedge is not an issue beyond noting that care has to be taken when driving it in I can live with it. If it shoots loose or becomes a safety issue I would be inclined to squawk about it.

Here are some glamor shots:

[Junk Yard Dog]

It still looks like an Uberti product. Translated from the original Italian into who knows how many languages, that note could be from Uberti or Dixie. I would think Dixie would have just corrected the problem rather than send it out like that. They have in house gunsmiths.

[hudson29]

In the age of personal confusers & laser printers there is very little "footprint" to track in establishing the origins of such a note. Even the paper size is unknown as the slip was rudely cutdown with a pair of scissors.

Whatever the origin, Dixie sold the revolver without mentioning the "defect" in the description. They either consider this normal or do not consider the adjustable gap via the wedge a safety matter.