Are these PU snipers real

[BenedictGomez]

+1 Clayshooter, owning several from Molot, R=Guns, and Samco, plus a non-import marked PU I have to agree, nothing to support these being refurbed by Molot or regular 91/30's with scopes added.

Uhhh..... this is how internet rumors get started and the debate and scrutiny gets even more convulated (if that's possible) than it already is. Nobody is saying the Molots are "regular 91/30's with scopes added". I mean, maybe SOMEONE, somewhere is saying that, but they've obviously never handled one or twenty-two of these. The Molots are at worst, original WWII era Russian sniper parts. Lets not cloudy up the h20 any more than it has to be.

I am not collecting relics to get rich, or because I saw some bullshit movie and think they make me look cool on the range

I've always assumed shooting a Mosin at the range makes me loose "coolness points", not gain them. I mean, I'm not saying it's Star Trek dorky, but I dont think it's perceived as cool. Actually, I dont know what the firearm equivalent of "Star Trek dorky" is, but I'm going to ponder that a bit.

EDIT: I think I've got it. The "Star Trek dorky" guy is the guy who buys a $145 Ruger 10/22 and then puts $1,450 worth of modifications onto it.

The other day someone told me they read someplace that Molot was a Russian state run entity. I have no idea where they picked that tidbit up, it's a crock of shit.

No, Molot definitely was a Russian entity, that's at least one "Fact Check" we can be 100% sure of. However, as Dolk said, they didn't make Mosins there.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning, especially given the lack of any answers from Molot. The problem I see here from time to time is that opinions (and that is all any of us have, as no one has facts) are being presented as fact. I don't know what Molot does to their rifles, and no one else here does either.

Okay, but lets not pretend that that doesn't happen with the, "Molot PUs are 100% legit" crew too. Plenty of them show absolutely no intellectual interest in uncovering the truth and speak like they know all the facts (they dont) too.

[Miller Tyme]

+1 Clayshooter, owning several from Molot, R=Guns, and Samco, plus a non-import marked PU I have to agree, nothing to support these being refurbed by Molot or regular 91/30's with scopes added.

Uhhh..... this is how internet rumors get started and the debate and scrutiny gets even more convulated (if that's possible) than it already is. Nobody is saying the Molots are "regular 91/30's with scopes added". I mean, maybe SOMEONE, somewhere is saying that, but they've obviously never handled one or twenty-two of these. The Molots are at worst, original WWII era Russian sniper parts. Lets not cloudy up the h20 any more than it has to be.

Muddy the water .... coming from you I take that as a complement, Better go back and read some of the posts both here and over on GB, including from your buddy LC where I have seen theories spewed out that they are ex-snipers resnipered, Reg 91/30's with scopes added, and even that some of the snipers have had such great bores that they must have had replacement barrels on them. I believe all of this to be so much speculation.

[Junk Yard Dog]

So in other words the Russian government has had to bail out Molot's parent corporation in order to keep it solvent, and protect whatever subsidiary is undoubtedly making something for the Russian military. So now they are at least partly under the supervision of the Russian government, an entity I trust about as far as I can pick it up and toss it.

[Junk Yard Dog]

+1 Clayshooter, owning several from Molot, R=Guns, and Samco, plus a non-import marked PU I have to agree, nothing to support these being refurbed by Molot or regular 91/30's with scopes added.

Uhhh..... this is how internet rumors get started and the debate and scrutiny gets even more convulated (if that's possible) than it already is. Nobody is saying the Molots are "regular 91/30's with scopes added". I mean, maybe SOMEONE, somewhere is saying that, but they've obviously never handled one or twenty-two of these. The Molots are at worst, original WWII era Russian sniper parts. Lets not cloudy up the h20 any more than it has to be.

Muddy the water .... coming from you I take that as a complement, Better go back and read some of the posts both here and over on GB, including from your buddy LC where I have seen theories spewed out that they are ex-snipers resnipered, Reg 91/30's with scopes added, and even that some of the snipers have had such great bores that they must have had replacement barrels on them. I believe all of this to be so much speculation.

Speculation is what it all is when you have a total lack of information flowing from the supplier of the items. Speculation is something I pay attention to when it comes from collectors with decades of experiance in the hobby. Then we move into the territory of educated guessing.

[Darryl]

Sorry, but I believe the Molot that handled these snipers is a private entity.
http://molot.biz/product/ko91-30.php

They have never been a arsenal of the Russian government. Perhaps under the Soviet system (communism) the state own almost everything, but they supplied firearms parts to the arsenals during WWII for certain firearms (not Mosins), but after the fall of the Soviet Union, they were not a governmental agency or arsenal. We know who the arsenals are.

[hr]
"Vyatskie Polyany Machine-Building Plant MOLOT" (a.k.a. MOLOT) was founded in 1940 mainly for producing the Shpagin machine pistol PPSh guns, which was one of the major infantry weapons of the Soviet armed forces during World War II.

In the 1950-60s the MOLOT factory was the only producer of the 9mm Stechkin automatic pistols APS, 7.62mm Kalashnikov light machine guns RPK and 30mm automatic grenade launchers Plamya AGS-17, which were highly recognized for their outstanding quality and reliability.

In 1994 MOLOT's designers presented their first civilian firearm - VEPR an autoloading hunting rifle for a 7.62x39mm cartridge. In the following year, the civilian guns line introduced several new models of the VEPR family: VEPR SUPER, VEPR PIONEER, VEPR HUNTER all in different calibers.

Later in 1997, the factory introduced the multifiring hunting Becas shotguns. Additionally, the factory started a hunting gun production based on Mosin-Nagant and Mauser rifles.
Sporting and hunting MOLOT firearms are well known around the world for their superior quality.

[hr]

That certainly doesn't sound like a governmental agency or entity to me. The Russian goverment selling VEPR rifles and hunting rifles and hunting shotguns? No, this is a private firm.

They produced firearms under private contract and in 1994 (well before these snipers came out) they were making civilian firearms. Then they were reworking Mosins. So in 1994 it shows (by their own history on their webpage that they were a civilian company selling civilian rifles and reworked Mosins. They may produce some firearms for the Government now (well, at least a part of their company is), but they are not a governmental agency. They have a list of "partner companies" they work with also. Most of them are out of Russia in other companies. Governmental agencies do not have foreign "partners". Companies have partners.

It's interesting that all these months everyone was fighting and yelling that Molot had nothing to do with refinishing these rifles, and it has been know that Molot was not a governmental entity. Now recently people are moving towards Molot may have refinished these rifles (or at least moving toward that direction), but are now arguing that Molot is an "state entity". Is someone now trying to ease us into this new story that Molot did refinish these snipers, but it's OK because they were a "Russian company"? I won't use entity, because they are not.

[Miller Tyme]

So in other words the Russian government has had to bail out Molot's parent corporation in order to keep it solvent, and protect whatever subsidiary is undoubtedly making something for the Russian military. So now they are at least partly under the supervision of the Russian government, an entity I trust about as far as I can pick it up and toss it.

No Rostec ( The Russian state Corporation) has been the controlling stock holder of Molot (through Concern Izhmash OJSC & Izhevskiy mashzavod OAO) with 50% of it's stock since 12/31/ 2011, the bankruptcy happened 16 months latter (4/2013). But it is clear that Molot isn't a truely privately owned company, but rather a state owned arsenal with 50% private investment.

[Miller Tyme]

It's interesting that all these months everyone was fighting and yelling that Molot had nothing to do with refinishing these rifles, and it has been know that Molot was not a governmental entity. Now recently people are moving towards Molot may have refinished these rifles (or at least moving toward that direction), but are now arguing that Molot is an "state entity". Is someone now trying to ease us into this new story that Molot did refinish these snipers, but it's OK because they were a "Russian company"? I won't use entity, because they are not.

Not me, I simple wanted to set the record straight after it was stated Molot was privately owned, which isn't factually correct. Molot's controlling intrest is through Rostec which is a Russian State Corporation, I still believe that these rifles are state arsenal refurbs. on that I have always stood firm.

P.S. here is the Russian defination of a Russian State corporation, you might find this intresting.


State Corporation (Russian: Государственная корпорация) is a type of legal entity in Russia. It is a non-profit organization created by special Federal law and wholly owned by Russian Government.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_corporation_(Russia)

[Darryl]

It's interesting that all these months everyone was fighting and yelling that Molot had nothing to do with refinishing these rifles, and it has been know that Molot was not a governmental entity. Now recently people are moving towards Molot may have refinished these rifles (or at least moving toward that direction), but are now arguing that Molot is an "state entity". Is someone now trying to ease us into this new story that Molot did refinish these snipers, but it's OK because they were a "Russian company"? I won't use entity, because they are not.

Not me, I simple wanted to set the record straight after it was stated Molot was privately owned, which isn't factually correct. Molot's controlling intrest is through Rostec which is a Russian State Corporation, I still believe that these rifles are state arsenal refurbs. on that I have always stood firm.

P.S. here is the Russian defination of a Russian State corporation, you might find this intresting.


State Corporation (Russian: Государственная корпорация) is a type of legal entity in Russia. It is a non-profit organization created by special Federal law and wholly owned by Russian Government.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_corporation_(Russia)

No I don't find it interesting at all.

If you want to convince yourself they are an arsenal, I'm not going to stop you.

But by that standard General Motors would be a US government entity also, seeing they own a huge part of them.

I'm done with this topic and if you would like to continue, be my guest. I see no value in continuing this. It's like beating a dead horse.All old information gone over dozens of time now. I'm tired of it ...... for now. I have other things to do on the forums (like update the entire software...again) and I have to work for a living, so adios (for this topic anyways).

Dolk

[BenedictGomez]

]Muddy the water .... coming from you I take that as a complement, Better go back and read some of the posts both here and over on GB, including from your buddy LC where I have seen theories spewed out that they are ex-snipers resnipered, Reg 91/30's with scopes added, and even that some of the snipers have had such great bores that they must have had replacement barrels on them. I believe all of this to be so much speculation.

That guy doesnt even believe 1/2 of what he says. He knows WAY too much about Mosins to honestly believe some of the silly nonsense he spouts, and he's highly biased against the Molots because he owns several RGUNs (i.e. $800 each) PU snipers. That said, I've never seen him suggest they were common 91/30s with scopes topped on them, but I'll take your word for it.

As for the "great bores" thing, it can be dismissed out of hand given how relatively rarely sniper rifles were fired compared with standard infantry guns. That one should fall under common sense or Occam's Razor (take your pick).

[millman]

]Muddy the water .... coming from you I take that as a complement, Better go back and read some of the posts both here and over on GB, including from your buddy LC where I have seen theories spewed out that they are ex-snipers resnipered, Reg 91/30's with scopes added, and even that some of the snipers have had such great bores that they must have had replacement barrels on them. I believe all of this to be so much speculation.

That guy doesnt even believe 1/2 of what he says. He knows WAY too much about Mosins to honestly believe some of the silly nonsense he spouts, and he's highly biased against the Molots because he owns several RGUNs (i.e. $800 each) PU snipers. That said, I've never seen him suggest they were common 91/30s with scopes topped on them, but I'll take your word for it.

As for the "great bores" thing, it can be dismissed out of hand given how relatively rarely sniper rifles were fired compared with standard infantry guns. That one should fall under common sense or Occam's Razor (take your pick).

If you guys want to fight the gunboards fight. Please take it back over there. It is done in this thread at least.