7.62x54r handloads

[m91/30_izhevsk]

Hi, I recently got into handloading and purchased a Lee Classic Reloader for the 7.62x54r round, the Lee Auto Prime XR, a digital scale and a digital caliper.
I recently got finished handloading 20 rounds. After consulting with the data sheet supplied with my reloader kit and a few different loading manuals, this is what I used for my first batch:
CCI No. 200 Large Rifle Primers
Hornady .312 150 grain Interlock soft point bullets #3120
Hodgdon H4895 43.8 grains

Here is where the problem comes in. While adjusting the bullet seating depth I seated the bullet in the first round too deep. The OAL of this round is 2.765 inches. The Lee data stated a minimum OAL of 2.875 inches while the Hornady manual stated a minimum OAL of 2.840 inches specifically for this bullet. The round on the right is what I got once I adjusted the seating depth on the die and got an OAL of 2.889 inches which is higher than both minimum OAL but smaller than the maximum OAL of 3.038 inches.

Now I know that bullet setback is a big problem for handgun cartridges because of their faster burning propellent and their non-bottleneck case design, while bottleneck rifle rounds due to their slower burning propellent (H4895 in this case), push the bullet out of the case and into the rifling before complete burning of the powder and therefore the reduced volume of the casing due to the lower seating bullet should not (at least theoretically) cause a huge spike in pressure and damage the gun. But since I am very new to this I would appreciate some input from people who are more experienced and knowledgeable about this topic and help me decide whether or not this round is safe to fire from my Mosin Nagant before I go to the range tomorrow. Thanks in advance!

[tjtM38]

I could solve your problem in a minute with my RCBS bullet puller. If you don't have one, you might want to think about it. As to firing that bullet seated a bit too deeply, I wouldn't be too concerned about firing it. This is medium burning powder you are using (I use IMR 4895 in this round) so I don't see a big problem. It is not like handgun using fast burning powders. The biggest issue will be the long jump the bullet has to go to get to the rifling; all that affects is accuracy.

I have RCBS dies and have set my bullet seating die correctly for the bullet I am using. Once you do this, your subsequent loads will be much easier with the same bullet. This is the load I am using:

Case: Winchester
Primer: CCI 200
Bullet: Hornady #3131 174 Grain FMJ (.3105 diameter)
Propellant: IMR 4895
Charge: 41.5 Grains
Velocity average for five shots: 2345 FPS (from M91/30 barrel)

I seat these bullets to the cannelure and have no problem with cartridge OAL. They feed nicely through all eight of my guns.

I think you are on the right track and looks like you are making some quality loads. Is this your first stab at reloading rifle? If so, make sure you are keeping cases trimmed to proper length. Cases too long can cause severe/extreme pressure problems. Good luck.

[m91/30_izhevsk]

Thank you for your reply. I have actually thought about the bullet puller and it's going to be among the next few things that I am going to have to get for handloading. It's funny how I thought at first that I would only need the Lee Classic Reloader and a mallet but pretty soon after I had to get more tools and I still have more to get! Fortunately this was the only round that I loaded with this much of a seating depth issue. The rest are seated at the cannelure like yours and their OAL are within tolerance. I was really frustrated because of this one round I didn't know if I should wait until I get a bullet puller or fire it and hope for the best.

As far as my reloading experience goes, this is the first time I reloaded a cartridge! Ever! I spent a quiet a bit of time before priming the cases measuring their length, inspecting them, cleaning them and even measuring their weight, which interestingly like the bullets, they are 150 grains! Since these were once fired brass, the length for all were much lower than the maximum case length. I'm sure after a few reloads, a case trimmer is going to be needed. I'm also looking into a blow torch of some kind for annealing the cases to make them last longer. And to think I thought handloading would be cheaper than buying factory ammo!

[tjtM38]

And to think I thought handloading would be cheaper than buying factory ammo!

Unfortunately, you are never going to be able to reload this round cheaper than you can buy surplus ammo. The bullets I am shooting are about 34 bucks for 100. That makes the bullet alone more than the cost of surplus. I reload this round because I love reloading, I can afford it (to a degree) and I wanted to make some docile, toned down loads with medium burning powder for the carbines, especially my M38. With this load, my guns kick less than my .30-30 and they are more accurate in the carbines.

Yes, good reloading equipment is not cheap, but I have found that buying quality equipment has paid off over the years. I started with the Lee classic loader and decided it was too slow and much too cumbersome to use. I bought a RCBS Rock Chucker starter kit in 1983 and am using the same press today. My dies have been upgraded over the years, but some I have (.30-06) are original from the 80's. This is equipment that will last longer than I will live.

I have found a great need in reloading for cartridges like the .303 British which is getting scarce in the surplus market. I definitely can reload .303 cheaper than what I can find at the gun shop or on the internet. 7.62x54r is a cartidge I really don't need to reload, but what the hell; you only live once. Do what you like to do.

[bunkysdad]

Hi m91, you are doing fine. You are not loaded to max so the deeper bullet seating won't hurt anything. However TJ is correct in that accuracy will be the biggest difference. The closer you have the bullet to the rifling the better chance of having more consistant accuracy.
I think the oal spec is most important so the rounds will feed in the magazine. Trimming your cases is important because you want your rounds to be a consistant length so the final product is all the same. You will find it to be much cheaper after you absorb the cost of all the goodies. That 4895 powder is a good choice with 150 gr jacketed bullets.

[m91/30_izhevsk]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I just got back from the range and fired all 20 rounds without any major problems! I did notice something very strange when firing three of them. After pulling the trigger I would hear the click from the firing pin hitting the primers than the usual sound of the gunshot! Needless to say I had late ignition on those rounds and I think the problem was that either the primers were seated too deeply in the primer pocket and the firing pin didn't hit them hard enough to cause the ignition fast enough, or something else. This brings me to my next question. How far in the primer pocket should I set the primers? The cases that I am using are the PPU Prvi Partizan. They have a lot of room in their primer pockets and I usually set the primers deep enough where they are a little deeper than flush with the rim but I know there is still plenty of room left in the primer pockets. Also does anyone think that the primers were not the issue and something else was causing this?

Besides those three rounds having minor issues, The rest functioned flawlessly and were really accurate. I was shooting off hand at 25 feet and then at 75 feet and I was getting consistent bullseyes until I started to develop fatigue and started getting larger groupings. Anyone have any tips on how to deal with fatigue while shooting? Thanks in advance.

[bunkysdad]

When I go to the range I shoot pretty slow, and switch up usually with another gun, most times a 22. I would try seating those primers flush and see how that does. If you have them recessed slightly it seems like a light primer strike would be the result. If that doesn't make a difference, then try making sure your powder in the cartridge is not spaced loosly from the primer's ignition. This can happen when using certain powders and a light load that doesn't fill the case too much. It can be as simple as carrying your rounds to the range in a hinged plastic reloader's box that allows them to be syored with the bullet up. The powder stays on top of the primer with no space and I have even heard of people holding their rifle with muzzle angled upwards to position the powder when chambering a round. The loads I am using right now is 18 grains of 2400 powder and a cast lead bullet. The powder fills the case less than half, which means that if I get careless the case could hold a double charge. I just double check everything, as a double load could make for a bad day! The good thing about this load is that it is mild shooting, accurate, and inexpensive. I think flush seating those primers will solve your problem. You are using good powder.

[m91/30_izhevsk]

I will try that next time thanks! I would however feel more comfortable if the primers were recessed just a little bit.

[bunkysdad]

Have you ever seen any factory ammo with recessed primers? Any pistol cartridges? Any shotgun shells? If the depth of the primer pocket worried me enough to recess the primer seating, I'd rather find a different brand of brass. Once you try the flush seating, I look forward to your finding.

[m91/30_izhevsk]

I have to pay attention to the primers seating depth the next time I get some factory ammo. I do however have some surplus rounds and their primers are slightly recessed. The reason why I said I feel more comfortable with the primers being recessed a little is because when I run my finger across the seated primer and the case, once I feel a small indentation, I know that I'm good to go and I wouldn't have to worry about a high primer. However that won't be the case if I were trying to get them seated perfectly flush. I could run my finger across the case and the seated primer and it might feel like the primer is flush but it may or may not be seating a little high. With that being said, I will try to seat them as flush as possible next time. I am also going to mark a stopping point on my lee auto priming tool so that I can get consistent seating depths every time I seat primers. Thanks again by the way.

[mcmillenbr]

When I go to the range I shoot pretty slow, and switch up usually with another gun, most times a 22. I would try seating those primers flush and see how that does. If you have them recessed slightly it seems like a light primer strike would be the result. If that doesn't make a difference, then try making sure your powder in the cartridge is not spaced loosly from the primer's ignition. This can happen when using certain powders and a light load that doesn't fill the case too much. It can be as simple as carrying your rounds to the range in a hinged plastic reloader's box that allows them to be syored with the bullet up. The powder stays on top of the primer with no space and I have even heard of people holding their rifle with muzzle angled upwards to position the powder when chambering a round. The loads I am using right now is 18 grains of 2400 powder and a cast lead bullet. The powder fills the case less than half, which means that if I get careless the case could hold a double charge. I just double check everything, as a double load could make for a bad day! The good thing about this load is that it is mild shooting, accurate, and inexpensive. I think flush seating those primers will solve your problem. You are using good powder.

When my case is not full I use a little of that white fiber stuff that you can get at the fabric store for stuffing pillows, I dont pack it in just enough to hold the powder next to the primer

[bunkysdad]

Yeah, the polyfill. That is the beauty of 2400, it works equally well without the filler. If the problem turns out to not be the primer seating perhaps a little polyfill over the powder would solve the problem. I didn't think to ask if you still had primer ignition. I just have not reloaded enough to experience the problem and am going off of what I have read. I did have a squib round where I missed the powder charge completely, and if I hadn't caught it before the next round would have at the very least destroyed a nice Enfield #1

[m91/30_izhevsk]

I'm glad you found out about the squib before it was too late. They can be very dangerous. That's why every time I fire a round, not only do I make sure I didn't have a suspicious low recoil before firing the next one, but I also check my target to make sure there is a new hole in it! A good practice that I do after seating the bullet and measuring the OAL, is that I weight the whole cartridge. Since I know how much the case, powder, primer and the bullet weight by themselves, I add them together and look to get that same number on the scale. I don't get the exact same weight but roughly close and that's the whole point. To make sure I didn't by accident double charge or forget to charge at all. As far as the primer issue goes, I had ignition on all of them and the ones with delayed ignitions were very short delays. I'm talking about milliseconds. Enough for me to hear the click of the firing pin slamming forward before the bang!

[franklin]

A couple other thoughts to check on your "hang fire". Don't handle the primers too much and wash and dry your hands before priming. Skin oil or gun oil from handling the gun prior to priming cases can degrade primers. Also metal flash in the primer holes can cause this issue. It's more often the case with brand new brass and not brass recovered from factory ammo.

[Jolly Green Chopper]

Has anyone ever encountered a squib .22 cartridge. Once in a while I get a .22 that just does not sound right and I always stop and check the barrel to be sure. I haven't found one yet. But i always look out for them.Iv'e seen what a gun looks like if it ever happens to a .38 hand load. Made a mess out of a nice Taurus 4" BBl. Thanks JGC

[ditchtiger]

Has anyone ever encountered a squib .22 cartridge. Once in a while I get a .22 that just does not sound right and I always stop and check the barrel to be sure. I haven't found one yet. But i always look out for them.Iv'e seen what a gun looks like if it ever happens to a .38 hand load. Made a mess out of a nice Taurus 4" BBl. Thanks JGC

A few, worst/best, depends how you like at it.
.22 made it to with-in a 1/2" of the muzzle with a 4" Taurus revolver.
Been around enough cruddy rounds to know to inspect the barrel.

[m91/30_izhevsk]

Just a quick update on my handloads. I found out that the reason for the delays in ignition were because the primers were not seated all the way. Before priming, I cleaned the primer pockets with a primer pocket cleaner real well and seated the primers all the way into the pocket and didn't have the problem again.

As far as the cases, it seems like they have stretched enough to reach the maximum case length. I either have to buy a case trimming tool, some once fired brass or some brand new factory ammo. I will probably buy a case trimming tool because handloading is very enjoyable and relaxing! I fired all of the cases 4 times (reloaded them 3 times) before having to do the trimming and only one of them so far is not gonna be loaded again. The diameter of the primer pocket for this particular case is too wide and a primer can easily be seated with a little force which is problematic since the primers have to be seated much tighter. I think I'm going to paint this case or mark it with something and seat a bullet in and use it as a dummy round.

While at the range, I noticed something interesting though. I got consistent small groupings 5 inches high at 50 yards while the rear sight was on the lowest setting which is 100 meters. At 100 yards I got a very large grouping 8 inches high and 6 inches to the right! I was shooting the rifle from a table with sandbags and a short stand. Also I didn't have the bayonet on so shooting to the right is probably because of that. But the reason for it shooting high is (based on what I have read) that the mosin nagants were designed to shoot high and that the soldiers were told to shoot at the belt line of the enemy. Based on my experience, it seems that it is true. However different powder loads, bullet sizes and bullet weight could have a different effect. To make sure that this is the case, I will be shooting some of the surplus ammo from WWII that come with the clips sometime soon and I will try to see if they shoot high as well. Also does anyone else have similar results?

[ISPKI]

M91 - Do you have a sling on your rifle? I never used to use the sling on my m91/30. One day, I just wrapped it around my left arm and it made a world of difference. The tension of the sling keeps the gun much more steady and places some of the weight on your upper torso, thus spreading the load out and allowing you to hold the gun steadier for longer periods of time. I have been able to go all day from standing position without actually letting go of the rifle.