Russian 40s Surplus 7.62x54R on Strippers $125.00/600+$25SH

[Junk Yard Dog]

[WeldonHunter]

I just pulled a .50cal can of 500rds of Brown Bear 7.62x39 HP made at the Barnual plant, different from the 188/LVE. Same exact smell. This is in a brand new, unstensiled, unissued can USGI M2A1 ammo can that only smelled like the rubber gasket when I filled it.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Do you recall if the boxes smelled like that when you put them in there? If they didn't then it's the ammo itself creating the smell, inks on the paper packaging are unlikely as none such were used for the surplus, cardboard cartons either, it would have to be coming off the ammo itself. I have used some wolf in the past, and shot thousands of rounds of Barnaul 7.62x39, I don't recall and strange smell when opening the boxes, but then I didn't let it sit in the ammo cans for long before it was shot up. Out gassing from the ammo itself? Some peculiarity of Soviet/Russian powder? I don't know, I am only familiar with that odor from opening ancient spam cans of 50+ year old ammo, we know smokeless powder deteriorates with age, that's nothing new, but new powder shouldn't be doing it in any noticeable way in our remaining lifetime. Some ammo I have never gotten that ammonia smell from is US .30-06, even WW2 stuff, Korean .30-06, the French 8mm Lebel despite the fact that the primers are dead, Turk 8mm, but that POF .303 has a noticeable smell to it. Some coating the Russians use on the case? I have a plastic sleeve of Wolf 7.62x39 at home that's unopened, I will make a small hole and give it the nose test later.

[WeldonHunter]

Do you recall if the boxes smelled like that when you put them in there? If they didn't then it's the ammo itself creating the smell, inks on the paper packaging are unlikely as none such were used for the surplus, cardboard cartons either, it would have to be coming off the ammo itself. I have used some wolf in the past, and shot thousands of rounds of Barnaul 7.62x39, I don't recall and strange smell when opening the boxes, but then I didn't let it sit in the ammo cans for long before it was shot up. Out gassing from the ammo itself? Some peculiarity of Soviet/Russian powder? I don't know, I am only familiar with that odor from opening ancient spam cans of 50+ year old ammo, we know smokeless powder deteriorates with age, that's nothing new, but new powder shouldn't be doing it in any noticeable way in our remaining lifetime. Some ammo I have never gotten that ammonia smell from is US .30-06, even WW2 stuff, Korean .30-06, the French 8mm Lebel despite the fact that the primers are dead, Turk 8mm, but that POF .303 has a noticeable smell to it. Some coating the Russians use on the case? I have a plastic sleeve of Wolf 7.62x39 at home that's unopened, I will make a small hole and give it the nose test later.

If I remember correctly they did smell like that when I got them. The Tula 154gr was in the ammo can when Sam shipped. He did that so protect the ammo at my request. It was single 20 round boxes. The Brown Bear is in the original factory box inside of the ammo can I put it in. I have a bunch of different Russian x39 ammo like this. Brown Bear, Silver Bear. Most came in the factory box packed full of 20rd boxes. I put all of them in ammo cans still in the original factory box. I pulled a can I have Ulyanovsk x39 in that came in a plastic sleeve with 25/20rd boxes originally and it smells the same. I also have about 10 tins of different stuff from Ulyanovsk to Sliver Bear, Brown Bear and Tula but I'never opened any of them. I'm saving them for after I ever shoot the stuff I have in ammo cans.

I just went and pulled a can of 7.62x51 NATO German MEN and DAG and it's the same smell only not as strong. Same with a can of 50s Yugo 8mm. Same smell but very very slight. The Russian stuff is way stronger on all accounts.

[Junk Yard Dog]

I checked the Wolf, it's a plastic sleeve from what was a case of 1000 rounds I bought about ten years back before the price went crazy, smells a bit musty, but no odour other than that and maybe a bit of plastic. I would not put it past all the plants in Russia to be using up older powder stocks. All these plants used to produce ammo for the state, they must have had huge supplies of loose powders on hand, typical of the Soviets who had a mania for hoarding just about everything in huge quantities, just look at the refurb Mosins themselves. Why produce new powder when ten million pounds of old powder remain that still works well even if it is starting to break down a bit.. Only a suspicion, but one I would bet is true. I recall buying Russian surplus 7.62x39 in the early 90's when the Russians first started to experiment with commercial ammo sales. The ammo was packed in boxes with no name other than made in Russia, and packed in plastic sleeves. When I tested it by firing a round at close range through a mild steel plate I had subjected to heat I found the next morning a clear pattern of corrosion around the bullet hole indicating a corrosive primer's residue had been at work in the humid summer air. The stuff was military ammo, or ammo made from military components with corrosive primers but marketed as new stock and clean. I was very careful to clean my AK after using it, and have never trusted Russian produced commercial ammo since. When I use any of it I clean with boiling water. While black powder is made from three very basic ingredients, and simple enough that it can be made in small batches at home ( do not do this, BP is highly explosive with just a single spark) Smokeless requires a much more in depth knowledge of chemistry, and the facilities of a commercial plant to produce. Cotton fiber, and nitroglycerin being some of the ingredients, it can be stored even underwater with no ill effect, but being a combination of various chemicals it has a shelf life. How long? Who knows for sure, I once shot five rounds of .30-40 Krag produced at Frankford arsenal in 1907, it was mixed accidentally with regular silver tip commercial ammo. I never noticed until later when I policed up the brass. It felt and shot like any normal ammo, there were no strange flyer's on the target, that ammo was 98 years old at the time. It could take decades for the com block surplus to degrade to the point that we just pull the bullets and reload with them, But one day it will happen, and that smell is just an early warning . At least with the surplus ammo, why the "new" ammo also has that smell just feeds my darkest suspicions about what goes on over there.

[SA1911a1]

I liked the smell. I just thought that was what the Soviet Union smelled like 60 years ago.

[Izhevsk762]

My crate showed up today. 1946 factory 188. The crate was in good shape and I'll be keeping it; the cans were also fine.

I now own an obscene 126 stripper clips (I already had 6).

[Junk Yard Dog]

I liked the smell. I just thought that was what the Soviet Union smelled like 60 years ago.

Moldering corpses and wood smoke?

[Hombre]

JYD, in addition to the ingredients you mentioned, the making of smokeless powder involves the use of various solvents.
My Hercules Smokeless Powder Guide (dated 1970) has this statement:

“HOW TO CHECK SMOKELESS POWDER FOR DETERIORATION
Although modern smokeless powders are basically free from deterioration under proper storage conditions, safe practice require a recognition of the signs of deterioration and its possible effects.
Powder deterioration can be checked by opening the cap on the container and smelling the contents. Powder undergoing deterioration has an irritating acidic odor. (Do not confuse this with common solvent odors such as alcohol, ether and acetone.)

Check to make certain that powder is not exposed to extreme heat as this may cause deterioration. Such exposure produces an acidity which accelerates further reaction and has been known, because to the heat generation to cause spontaneous combustion.”


I think the smells mentioned in this thread come from various solvents that were still in the powder when it was loaded.
I some Red Dot left in a 3 pound keg that I bought nearly 50 years ago and there still is a mild odor to it.

As to the US ammo not giving off any odor, that may be because the cartidges are better sealed and/or the solvents were caused to evaporate out more before the powder was used.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Hombre, I think it was you who informed me some years back about smokeless powder deterioration. Previous to that I lived in blissful ignorance to the fact It's hard to say what some of these stinks are, most of them I do find irritating. Knowing the commies some of this ammo probably did receive improper storage, but for the plinking we do with it I don't see any problem, even the case failures seem to be small, and not particularly dangerous if one is wearing proper protective gear. I have a couple of eight pound cans of 50, maybe 60 year old powder, one red dot, the other Hercules that I am still trying to come up with a use for.

[Hombre]

...... It's hard to say what some of these stinks are, most of them I do find irritating. .....

Do you really mean irritating or is it just not pleasant? Acid smell is very strong and will cause your nose to have a stinging sensation.

[Junk Yard Dog]

It's like opening the ice box and smelling something and just knowing something isn't right. Not stinging, although I don't stick my nose close when opening a can that's been sitting, but ammonia like is the closest I can come to it. Sometimes the smell is something else, can't quite put my finger on what, just different. I got it with at least one crate of Czech, the ammonia/acidic stink, that crate has been breached, the incompetents who sealed it left a hole. The other time copper washed ammo, I don't remember the age or who made it, I got it free with the Finn M38 back in 90' or so, but it all shot OK. I repacked that copper case stuff in a USGI can, and every few years when I would open it ( I didn't shoot Mosins much back then) I would get that smell. The Czech stuff I shot up in two weeks, it wasn't around long enough for me to notice much other that some case failures around the neck area that I didn't see until I policed up the brass ( something that didn't happen with the other cases of Czech I shot up)
It only seems to be the East Block stuff that comes with it's own smell, I never get any particular odor when opening Western surplus, or even stuff from South America.

[JTheBigJay]

JUST got mine... smelled like Italian salad dressing... 1952 marked. All Izhevsk clips and a "M28" on the card board.. the wife pointed out "wow... may 28, thats your birth day, its a sign" "a sign i need more ammo right??" "nah, just a sign, like a yeild sign". damn it LOL..

[drabnor]

I have had no issues with any of these clips I have used...

[cwilliams]

Just got mine -

[Junk Yard Dog]

[JTheBigJay]

cwilliams: what is the date on the rounds?

[Rongo]

Looking good guys... I'm glad to see this stuff available so the masses can finally enjoy using proper stripper clips. I have about 50 clips myself along with plenty of ammo so I really have no need of this stuff. When I head to the range I fill a .50 cal can of 8mm, 7.62x39 & 7.62x54r rounds all on clips. Much easier than loading rounds individually.

[p-t-max]

This stuff smells funny. Oh, wait, you said that already.

[Izhevsk762]

I forgot to mention, my crate also had the handles held on with spent cases, I thought that was cool. The clips were pretty much all Izhevsk marked, although some were very faint. Some were marked on the inside of the clip.

cwilliams: what is the date on the rounds?

His can is marked 1947.