ask the mosin experts

[Dragunov sniper 777]

the other day i shot some S&B 7.62x54 R 180 gr factory loads for the brass , i resized the brass today with the lee full length seizer and it caused them to ring on the first shot , usually i get 5 or 6 shots on new brass before this die rings them , these were shot in different 91/30's/m44's and the end result is they all have a ring , so i don't think it's the firearms , i think the die is undersized or just defective ? ...what do all of you think ? brass ? die " guns ?
i have had good luck with other lee dies but have never been satisfied with this set , someone else said they were steel and will ring the cases, i have a set of RCBS carbide dies on the way ..

[desdem12]

I think we were just talking about this very thing and someone said the dies were the problem. I know there were problems with S&B brass a while back. I won't buy it for a couple of reasons. I have lee dies too but have not used them yet, but i wonder if it would make a difference if it had the the right neck sizer in it. The lees come with the .308 instead of the .311. You can order a .303 neck expander decapper that will fit for the x54 dies. I am not sure if this will fix this issue or not.

[Dragunov sniper 777]

i think that was me , he was having problems closing the bolt , i told him that lee dies didn't bump back the shoulder , i have that problem too after 5 or six shots , i have no idea what caused once fired brass to ring ?
i ordered a extra .303 expander with my dies years ago and had been using lapua and norma brass with out much problem, its not the fact that they a just expensive they are also hard to find , it rings wolf brass the worst ?

[desdem12]

Well this is good info for me then. I will have to check it out when i get that far. I have had the dies for almost a year now and haven't used them yet. I love the other lee stuff though. So does it make any difference to have the 303 expandre or is the 308 expander work just as good?

[Dragunov sniper 777]

your set of lee dies may work perfect , my set of lee dies , the .308 expander measures .306 and the .311 one mic's out at .309.5 , they don't bell the mouth properly enough to start the bullet by hand , you just have to drop it on to top and jam it an there any way it will go even if its crooked , my die seems to have an excessive amount of run out as well , just shoddy performance all around in my book , i haven't liked this set of lee dies since i loaded the first round , most everything i own is lee and RCBS , i have never had a complaint with lee till this set of dies , this die just kinda screamed at me "why bother " and or "its miller time at the shop " :shifty:RCBS on the way i will give a quick review when the arrive ..

[desdem12]

Ok thanks for the info DS. I will order some 303 dies too cause i have that caliber also, And use the expander from that set. I have some plans to do a small batch for .308 also so we will see how things turn out.

[Dragunov sniper 777]

the lee die was the problem , my RCBS dies came this morning , the first thing i noticed was that both case expanders came with the set , it dose not come with a shell holder but i have a couple already , the next thing i noticed was the quality look and high polish inside the die's , they are steel not carbide , but add some lube and they work perfect , i took the worst wolf case's i had for being rung and not chambering in any of my moe's , they sized easy unlike the lee die and when i got to the bottom the last little nudge i could feel it set the shoulder back and removed the ring ,after resizing all ,i rolled them around and they are concentric, they chambered in every rifle , so i am saying its solved , the lee die has loads of tool mark's inside and it's not ground or polished properly and it's not concentric , it had a grabbing gritty feel and damaged the crap out of my expensive and scarce 54R case's , the RCBS works like they should , next i will buy the neck size only and cook up some 174 gr sniper loads , RCBS may cost a bit more but they are worth it, i have had great luck with lee in the past and they are near to my heart , but after John or Richard jr took over the quality has seemed to slip , my lee die is clearly defective and unusable , ...

all is right in mosin land tonight ..

[desdem12]

Thanks for the report DS

[bunkysdad]

I am confused. A problem exists with Lee dies? Why not call Lee and get the problem resolved? I am interested in seeing how they handle the situation. Even if you bought RCBS, why not give customer service a call?
Now about that ring. What causes the ring? Is it just not sizing all the way to the rim? And does it hurt anything?

[Dragunov sniper 777]

I am confused. A problem exists with Lee dies? Why not call Lee and get the problem resolved? I am interested in seeing how they handle the situation. Even if you bought RCBS, why not give customer service a call?
Now about that ring. What causes the ring? Is it just not sizing all the way to the rim? And does it hurt anything?

i have had the die over two years , they want me to pay half the price of the original die to have it reconditioned , the ring is not the biggest problem, yes i am told the ring dose not hurt anything , it wouldn't bump back the bottle neck so the round would chamber, the die doesn't seem to size all the way down , i have a cast iron press and i can't get it to go all the way down , one fellow who did snapped the case head off trying to retract it , as for the ring i think the die is undersized and not properly belled at the mouth , i had a leeloader and it worked fine , i sold it to a friend after buying that set as a upgrade , the lee loader only sized the neck ,when i had difficulty early on i should of sent it right back , ah you live you learn ...

[bunkysdad]

That is interesting. I have Lee dies, but when I was ready to buy the 7.62x54 set I didn't want to wait for mail order and found the RCBS set locally, and they are nice. I bought my 303 dies in the Lee yellow box. They have both sizing dies in the set but they are limited on the available applications.

[tjtM38]

I have the RCBS dies and they are making some great 7.62x54r loads for me. I use the .311 expander ball, but the die came with both.311 and .308. I also bought the RCBS 7.62x54r trim die for this caliber, and it is a high quality, durable tool. I'm using Hornady load data from their newest manual; some of the most comprehensive I have seen.

[Dragunov sniper 777]

I have the RCBS dies and they are making some great 7.62x54r loads for me. I use the .311 expander ball, but the die came with both.311 and .308. I also bought the RCBS 7.62x54r trim die for this caliber, and it is a high quality, durable tool. I'm using Hornady load data from their newest manual; some of the most comprehensive I have seen.

i got RCBS 7.62x54r dies now too , and i am very satisfied with the performance of them , i have had good luck with lee in the past , but that one die was a dud ..

[Burrhead]

Lee ships with a .308 expander so the guys with the Finn rifles that have .308 barrels can load with them. I use Lee dies for my 7.62X54R reloading and if I am following you the ring you are speaking of is at the base of the case or Head. This I think is caused by the solid base of the case being thicker than most other brass made for this cartridge. I have some S&B that I have loaded at least 6 or 7 times and used them in all my rifles and I have about ten Mosins. So to me this is cosmetic if I am following you on this. As to the stuck case if the case is fired in a rifle with a larger chamber than some others you will have to work the brass more to bring it back into specifications. The only time I have had a stuck case it was my fault because I didn't lube the case enough. All bottle neck full length sizer dies are not carbide they are steel and lube is necessary some cases will require more than others. I load for 2 K31's and they have large chambers and you have to really work sizing them. So I wonder if your die is actually damaged. Not being there I can't say for sure but I'd love to see the die myself and see if I could help you out a little. Another thing do you ever clean your Sizer dies? They do get dirty, I clean mine with either alcohol or Hoppies gun cleaner. Just something to think about.
Burrhead

[Dragunov sniper 777]

Lee ships with a .308 expander so the guys with the Finn rifles that have .308 barrels can load with them. I use Lee dies for my 7.62X54R reloading and if I am following you the ring you are speaking of is at the base of the case or Head. This I think is caused by the solid base of the case being thicker than most other brass made for this cartridge. I have some S&B that I have loaded at least 6 or 7 times and used them in all my rifles and I have about ten Mosins. So to me this is cosmetic if I am following you on this. As to the stuck case if the case is fired in a rifle with a larger chamber than some others you will have to work the brass more to bring it back into specifications. The only time I have had a stuck case it was my fault because I didn't lube the case enough. All bottle neck full length sizer dies are not carbide they are steel and lube is necessary some cases will require more than others. I load for 2 K31's and they have large chambers and you have to really work sizing them. So I wonder if your die is actually damaged. Not being there I can't say for sure but I'd love to see the die myself and see if I could help you out a little. Another thing do you ever clean your Sizer dies? They do get dirty, I clean mine with either alcohol or Hoppies gun cleaner. Just something to think about.
Burrhead

i lube all cases even for my carbide pistol dies, the brass lasts longer , i clean all case's then lube them before sizing , i clean all of my dies , this lee die has always had a scraping sticky feel , and every time i tyred to get it all the way up in the die it just stopped and would pop the expander plug loose no matter how tight you had it , it didn't matter which rifle the case was fired in the results were the same ,then after 3 or 4 shots the case would no longer chamber in any of the guns even after trimming , it should not take excessive force to size any case ..

i make a offer to anyone , whoever wants to test this die and see what i am talking about , just send me your mailing address and i will send it to you , and if it works fine for them they can have it , it doesn't work for me , it has both expander plugs ....
keith

[desdem12]

I don't know if i would try it but i could use the bigger neck expander if no one else needs it. I suppose i could do a side by side with the lee die i have to see if there is a difference. Or i guess i could do a case or two with it.

[Dragunov sniper 777]

I don't know if i would try it but i could use the bigger neck expander if no one else needs it. I suppose i could do a side by side with the lee die i have to see if there is a difference. Or i guess i could do a case or two with it.

brother if you want it , pm me your mailing address and i will sent it and the expanders your way ..
Keith

[desdem12]

PM sent

[Burrhead]

Do you lube the inside of the neck so the expander will have something to ease it's passage through the case? I think this is the biggest short fall of the Lee designed sizers the neck expander is too long. Myself I like a ball expander but they tend to not leave the neck nice and straight if you go too fast on the down stroke of the press. I inside neck lube for all my Lee sizer dies for this reason. I agree that RCBS and Redding make a hell of a product but they also charge a hell of a price for some of their stuff.
Understand I wasn't trying to give you a hard time I was just trying to understand your problem. I had a neck expander that would not stay in place on a set of Lee dies and e-mailed them, they sent me a new expander free of charge. Heck they sent me the wrong die once and shipped me the correct one and told me to keep the other die as it was their mistake, that is good PR in my opinion. sorry you are having such a problem. RCBS is good on their stuff too, my 43 Spanish dies arrived with the wrong neck expander and I wanted to shoot my rifle so I turned down another one so I could get shooting. RCBS replaced them both at no charge. All these companies seem to know how to treat the guy that is buying from them, wish the Oil Companies were that way.
burrhead

[Dragunov sniper 777]

Do you lube the inside of the neck so the expander will have something to ease it's passage through the case? I think this is the biggest short fall of the Lee designed sizers the neck expander is too long. Myself I like a ball expander but they tend to not leave the neck nice and straight if you go too fast on the down stroke of the press. I inside neck lube for all my Lee sizer dies for this reason. I agree that RCBS and Redding make a hell of a product but they also charge a hell of a price for some of their stuff.
Understand I wasn't trying to give you a hard time I was just trying to understand your problem. I had a neck expander that would not stay in place on a set of Lee dies and e-mailed them, they sent me a new expander free of charge. Heck they sent me the wrong die once and shipped me the correct one and told me to keep the other die as it was their mistake, that is good PR in my opinion. sorry you are having such a problem. RCBS is good on their stuff too, my 43 Spanish dies arrived with the wrong neck expander and I wanted to shoot my rifle so I turned down another one so I could get shooting. RCBS replaced them both at no charge. All these companies seem to know how to treat the guy that is buying from them, wish the Oil Companies were that way.
burrhead

yeah , i lube the inside of the cases when i lube the outside , no problem i didn't think you were trying to give me a hard time, i know noob error is most of the problems with reloading , i have been hand loading one thing or another since i was 13 , i started off with blackpowder revolvers and graduated to shot guns and centerfire revolvers , i admit i have only been loading rifle cartridges for about 6 years , same concept just different problem areas and precautions , i started loading .308 win with a set of lee deluxe collet dies , a great set of dies loads accurate and beautiful ammo , when i got my first milsurp i bought a lee loader which worked great as well ,this lee die just never had the great feel of the others , in my opinion it was just a RGB die packaged in a deluxe set with a factory crimp , read some reviews a lot of people have had trouble with this 54r die the past few years , being on a budget i love lee and that's what i started with and primarily use , but i am seeing a bunch of complaints of late about lee products and i feel their quality is slipping , i hope that isn't the case cause they made quality products at a affordable price ..