Headspace guages and safety

[WeldonHunter]

i can work on them i rebult one m1 befor an it is no problem

Cool I guess you're set then. Carry on.

[desdem12]

Now that I see the mosin receiver failure, I wonder if that's why the turkmauser forum suggested Gewehr 88 rebuilds might not be shooters. They were rebarreled but, the receivers were not designed for 8 MM Mauser round. My grandfather-in-law had no problems shooting it but, I always wear safety glasses and inspect cartridges after firing from all my refurbs.

The gew 88s are old recievers and the turks used the hottest of the hot of 8mm mauser that is why you should check the turk marked (all really) ones carefully. If they pass the headspace then you should be able to use the low not hot reloads in them. Most of the turkish gew 88s were modified to use the 8mm mauser rounds and have added the dohickey on the top of the reciever for the mauser clips and have the cutout in the front of the reciever.

[tjtM38]

tjtM38

when the case comes out it is bent down it look like the top of the case is hiting the receiver when it is Ejecting

I think this is pretty typical with M1 rifles. I get some dented case mouths when shooting M2 ball surplus. For some reason, it doesn't do it as bad with my handloads; they may be a bit milder. Avoid shooting full power .30-06 commercial loads, as they can be hard on the action. By the way, my gun came from the armory in Anniston AL (CMP), it has never been headspace checked since I have owned it, and I have safely fired hundreds of rounds through it, including handloads.

[lonewolf]

all i shoot is M2 ball surplus i will not put new ammo in it

[WeldonHunter]

tjtM38

when the case comes out it is bent down it look like the top of the case is hiting the receiver when it is Ejecting

I think this is pretty typical with M1 rifles. I get some dented case mouths when shooting M2 ball surplus. For some reason, it doesn't do it as bad with my handloads; they may be a bit milder. Avoid shooting full power .30-06 commercial loads, as they can be hard on the action. By the way, my gun came from the armory in Anniston AL (CMP), it has never been headspace checked since I have owned it, and I have safely fired hundreds of rounds through it, including handloads.

You've been lucky and maybe someone did their job at the armory. The point is no matter how many safe shots have been fired headspace checking is a part of regular maintanence of any firearm. The parts wear it's like checking the brakes on a car. Eventually they will fail but until they do they work fine usually.

My M1 Garand isn't 30.06 either so it doesn't necessarily have to do with the type of ammo you're using. My Garand is chambered in 7.62x51 NATO and I suspect the Op Rod spring is weak as well as I shot the gun after it sat for 15 years without cleaning it. I know better but got lazy. It did better after an oiling but still did it. I also am using German Men NATO Surplus as well as Winchester Q3130 NATO Ammo. I don't expect it to perform flawlessly because it's one of the one's Arlington Ord. rearsenalled and I suspect some of the parts are worn. It's a slow process. It's hard to believe the rounds are being damaged on the ejection cycle because they should still be in the bolt but maybe you're right. I'll have to check this the next time I shoot. I haven't had any damaged casing like that. Mine are just stovepiping on the way in while feeding. The new Op Rod spring will fix that I hope. These are some really neat rifles.

[jderimig]

it looks like this idk why

http://media.photobucket.com/image/rece ... G_2127.jpg

Normal for M1's as far as I understand. My M1 does the same thing, depends on the lot of surplus ammo I use (always use ammo designed for the M1).

The case ejects and sometimes spins around and hits the hump in the op-rod. (Look and you will probably see some brass on it...)

--john

[tjtM38]

Some things I don't feel qualified to evaluate on a firearm. Headspace is one of them. I am no gunsmith; I'm a casual gun collector and shooter. If I think I have a headspace problem, I'll take to someone qualified to not only check it, but fix it as well.

[polymerase2]

CMP says they headspace the Garands they sell. I'm thinking of getting one of the adjustable gas ports for mine to reduce the pressure on the op rod. After I cleaned it the rounds eject quite vigourously and usually dent. I am using surplus M2 ball. I suspect when you have just enough pressure to cycle, the brass won't be hitting.
I notice my Swiss K31 dents the brass in the same matter. That bolt operates very quickly and really throws the brass.

[tjtM38]

CMP says they headspace the Garands they sell. I'm thinking of getting one of the adjustable gas ports for mine to reduce the pressure on the op rod. After I cleaned it the rounds eject quite vigourously and usually dent. I am using surplus M2 ball. I suspect when you have just enough pressure to cycle, the brass won't be hitting.
I notice my Swiss K31 dents the brass in the same matter. That bolt operates very quickly and really throws the brass.

They couldn't sell these Garands to the public if they weren't fully inspected and refurbished to appropriate milspec. I consider the risk of firing the gun less than minimal, especially since I have owned it for 20 years and only fired it occasionally. I suspect the Russians did the same thing with their arsenal refurb weapons. Otherwise, thousands of Americans wouldn't be collecting them and shooting them safely right out of the box or cosmoline.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Read my comment about what I have found with the Russian refurbs, these rifles would have had problems corrected in the field by armorers. Now we are the armorers. They can, and do fail headspace checks, and this from just the ones I happen to own.

[tjtM38]

Read my comment about what I have found with the Russian refurbs, these rifles would have had problems corrected in the field by armorers. Now we are the armorers. They can, and do fail headspace checks, and this from just the ones I happen to own.

So even if I had one that failed a field gauge, how would I fix it? Buy 20 bolt heads until I got one that was right? It's not like an Enfield No.4 Mk1/2 that has bolt heads numbered for different spec guns. So it is guess work and expense. Is it necessary if I have fired the gun safely and show no signs of headspace issues and a variety of ammo, what is the point? How would I know that the headspace gauge was made to the proper specs?

[Junk Yard Dog]

It only ever took one bolt head swap to fix the Mosins, and sometimes just swapping bolt heads with another rifle will cure it, both end up passing. I keep a few heads around, they are not expensive.

[Longcolt44]

" How would I know that the headspace gauge was made to the proper specs? "

You buy the gauges from our advertiser OKIE HEADSPACE GAUGES in the banner above. That's what he does and he has sold many, many, many gauges to us with never a problem or complaint.

[tjtM38]

I don't feel like buying a whole set. Would you recommend just a field gauge to ensure the gun is safe for milspec ammo?

[pacanis]

I bought the no-go, for all my headspace gauges so far. I kind of wish I had gone with the field ga now, because like I mentioned above, it is possible for a rifle to fail the no-go and still shoot fine and be safe. I just wouldn't make it my everyday shooter.

[lonewolf]

can you still reload the cases with the bent case mouth can they be resized?

[tjtM38]

Yes; if they are just dented, your resizing die should take care of it. I've done this numerous times with commercial .30-06 that I have used in the M1. That being said, make sure the case is not so badly damaged up front that it is unsafe to reload it; this just takes some judgement and experience. I resize cases full length (typical for semi-auto) and make sure they are trimmed to proper length according to my Hornady manual.

[tjtM38]

I bought the no-go, for all my headspace gauges so far. I kind of wish I had gone with the field ga now, because like I mentioned above, it is possible for a rifle to fail the no-go and still shoot fine and be safe. I just wouldn't make it my everyday shooter.

Yeah, I can't see buying a go gauge, because I am not a gunsmith and won't be do any barrel changes in my lifetime. I may go with just the field and maybe the no-go.

[websterz]

How would I know that the headspace gauge was made to the proper specs?

Many thousands of tested rifles, countless hours of research, and extensive testing by qualified gunsmiths (including our buddy Entropy) went into our gauge line. They are right.

[JTheBigJay]

websterz do you rent gauges?

I havn't caught the MN fever yet and only have one, *don't laugh, i'm still ashamed i haven't gathered up any friends for it*

I just need to check this one.