Hi all!
New to the forum, but loving all the Mosin info. Also new to the world of Mosins, and currently have an m44 and this beautiful m91/59. I picked it up at a pawn shops after being intrigued by the nebulous origins of this model. I found this one to have some curious characteristics including: Tula marking on the receiver, izhevsk markings elsewhere?, no s/n on stock, no metal in sling swivels (just a tab on the front),and a hex receiver. Being new to the world of Mosins (and 91/59s specifically), is there anything curious or unusual about this? I had come to the impression that round receivers and dates in the 40s, along with metal sling holes were pretty common. Thanks in advance for any thoughts, as well as allowing me to show off this really nice piece!
Mosin 91/59 Score!
Mosin 91/59 Score!
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Junk Yard Dog
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Re: Mosin 91/59 Score!
Welcome to the board, nice rifles. The parts mix is normal as these would have seen refurbishment by the Soviets during the post war period. During this process no efforts were made to keep every rifle only one manufacturers parts. These would never have had any sort of sling swivel, only the slots with leather dog collars. Sometimes other countries would bend heavy wire in the slots to form a swivel of sorts. The metal tab in the sling slot just means the stock used for the build was wartime manufactured when no metal or just that little tab were used to speed production. The stock was not serial numbered, barrel, buttplate, magazine door, bolt body. The Soviets did not take serial numbering as far as the Germans did, we on the other hand only needed one serial number on a rifle. The serial number on the receiver was put there by the US importer to comply with import regulations.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Mosin 91/59 Score!
Fascinating. That’s sort of the answer I figured, since that was my understanding of the carbine’s manufacturing process as well. I also meant sling slots in my original description, but accidentally typed sling swivels…whoops! At any rate, is it probably safe to say there’s no “typical” characteristics (I.e., metal sling slots, hex vs. round, etc.) for these rifles beyond the “1891/59” marking and the milled rear sights?
Re: Mosin 91/59 Score!
This is a very uncommon variety. To find these dated in the 30's, especially in the early 30's where hex receivers were used is pretty rare anymore... Contrats.
I've owned a few of these in the past
and I will say that there is a standard in the sling slots, at least with the ones I had and the ones I have seen.. Now, yours didn't use the original stock which isn't totally uncommon. But typically, if the stocks were serviceable, the original stock was used on these. Your stock is a war years stock which was not original to the gun. Typically what you will find on these guns is the original sling slots on the butt stock and always a tabbed war years sling slot in the front. Because the forestock was cut down to carbine length, new slots were made and they standardized on using war years tabbed slots for the new slots. If it was a pre war rifle originally and the stock was serviceable then the butt stock would retain the original pre war sling slots. In your case, the stock was changed out when they converted it. Not to worry though. This should not impact much the value of the piece - only to people like me but even so, not much. On top of the buttstock it is stamped with the appropriate stampings proving it is a true 91/59 stock. Of course with Mosins, nothing is written in stone. But you will see this configuration (tabbed front slot and original butt stock slots) on 99% of the 91/59's.
The mixture of parts you noticed was typical. In that regard, whoever made these guns followed the Russian process of complete disassembly, cleaning and inspecting parts, placing the parts in bins and then choosing random parts when rebuilding or refurbishing these guns. There are very few examples of fully matching 91/30's with original parts.
I've owned a few of these in the past
and I will say that there is a standard in the sling slots, at least with the ones I had and the ones I have seen.. Now, yours didn't use the original stock which isn't totally uncommon. But typically, if the stocks were serviceable, the original stock was used on these. Your stock is a war years stock which was not original to the gun. Typically what you will find on these guns is the original sling slots on the butt stock and always a tabbed war years sling slot in the front. Because the forestock was cut down to carbine length, new slots were made and they standardized on using war years tabbed slots for the new slots. If it was a pre war rifle originally and the stock was serviceable then the butt stock would retain the original pre war sling slots. In your case, the stock was changed out when they converted it. Not to worry though. This should not impact much the value of the piece - only to people like me but even so, not much. On top of the buttstock it is stamped with the appropriate stampings proving it is a true 91/59 stock. Of course with Mosins, nothing is written in stone. But you will see this configuration (tabbed front slot and original butt stock slots) on 99% of the 91/59's.The mixture of parts you noticed was typical. In that regard, whoever made these guns followed the Russian process of complete disassembly, cleaning and inspecting parts, placing the parts in bins and then choosing random parts when rebuilding or refurbishing these guns. There are very few examples of fully matching 91/30's with original parts.
Re: Mosin 91/59 Score!
Interesting! Again, I am so incredibly new to this process of collecting, and I know the 91/59's can be a mish-mash of parts, but I sort of wondered if an early 30's/hex receiver combo was a little uncommon for these. The stock makes sense, totally should have picked up on that since my m44 is a '45 and has the tabbed front/original butt stock slots (late war, but wartime stock nonetheless). Thanks for the info!