New Member - Purchased 1st Mosin - Questions!

[GColloton]

Thanks in advance for any help and taking the time to reply.

I purchased my first Mosin Nagant 91/30. I have read about 50+ posts and articles and watched hours of YouTube but a lot of them are old from 5-10 years ago. There’s probably a lot newer information available from the members on here.

The 91/30 I purchased is a 1934 Izhevsk with a low serial number (122) and hexagon receiver. The serial number matches on all four parts (barrel, butt plate, floor plate, and bolt). The bayonet is a different serial number. Imported by CAI -Georgia, VT Made in Russia State Factory.

Here are my questions:
1). On the import tag, what does the “X” mean?

2). Does the bayonet usually have a matching serial number?

3). What is the reddish/orange coloring on the barrel serial number and rear sight numbers?

4). Does the brass at the ends of the barrel hand guard signify anything?

5). Is there an update on what the 25 in the triangle means?

6). Can anyone make out the partial stamp on the receiver? Looks like something in a circle.

7). What does the “2” on the bottom of the stock signify?

8). To the top left of the barrel serial number there’s a square with no lines in it. What’s that?

9). To the right of the barrel serial number there’s a square with maybe a circle in it? What’s that?

10). Part A): There’s still cosmoline all over this (in my photos as well). I’m going to use mineral spirits to remove from all the metal and a second wash with dish detergent or simple green before I re-oil. What is the safest method for preserving the bluing / paint (even the reddish orange)?

Part B): What cleaning method is best to preserve the finish on the wood? I’d prefer to clean as best as possible, then use the sun / black trash bag method to clear out the pores. I don’t want to use the oven or heat gun.
Well that was a lot of questions. I hope you don’t mind helping me out. Even if you just know the answer to one of them. I’m pretty excited to get this cleaned up and take it out to the range and display it in my gun cabinet. Lots of pictures attached. I crossed off the new serial number on my photos. It looks like some others recommended that in the stickies I’ve read.

I’ve posted this on some other discussion boards as well. I’m really hoping to get as much knowledge as possible and get my two brothers into these as well.

Thank you! -Be well, Garry

[Longcolt44]

Welcome to the forum. Many of your questions can be answered by reading up in the RMNF KNOWLEDGE BASE. You can find it at the top banner at the top of the page here.

[ffuries]

You'd be surprised how easy to clean the metal is. I use boiling water to liquefy the grease, after one or two rounds of that, I use brake cleaner, bore cleaner, pb blaster etc to finish cleaning the metal then oil it.

As for the wood, I get all the grease out of the nooks and crannies, then on a hot ass day, hang it outside and let the heat leach the rest out.

The X on the hang tag is probably just an inventory thing, nothing more.

The bayonets at one time matched the rifle, but are soon separated. Unless the importer goes through the trouble of matching them up, they're not going to match. They just grab the top one and put it into the box with the rifle.

The rifle is most likely forced matched, meaning SN parts have been scrubbed of their original SN to match the receiver SN during refurbishment. To figure out if this is so, look at the fonts on the serial number IF they are identical then maybe original of not forced matched. Oh and the empty box is a refurbishment mark for Arsenal No 7 in the city of Riga.

The orange paint has been debated to death, but I don't know if they ever figured out why some are done.

Some good information on the knowledge base area of this forum, as mentioned by Longcolt44.

Knowledge Base link.

app.php/page/1

And on another site.

https://www.m9130.info

The following link found in the above link will tell you what a lot of the markings are and mean.

https://www.m9130.info/repair-depot-markings

[millman]

Almost all of the 25 in a triangle marked rifles that I have seen, have had that paint in the numbers.

[GColloton]

Hi. Thanks very much for all of the replies so far. I’m checking out the links that were suggested also. I had previously looked at the 7.62x54r.net page that appears to have a lot of info, but it doesn’t look like the pages have been updated with recent findings. I’m not sure the rifle serial was forced matched because the font for the “122” seems to be the same on all of the parts, and there’s no evidence of an old serial on anything or grinding or removing. I purchased this from a shop that had just gotten 18 in and basically had the pick of them. What stood out to me was the brass hand guard barrel caps and the reddish orange paint on the numbers, this was the only one that had those things. Plus it was a hex barrel and low serial number. The wood has good color and looks like it will clean up nicely.
The “X” I was referring to is on that white band that the importer puts with the rifle, plus they wrote it on a yellow tag (pictured) that was in the box as well. The only thing it didn’t come with was a sling, but I found one online that appears to be original and authentic I just ordered.

[qz2026]

Thanks in advance for any help and taking the time to reply.

I purchased my first Mosin Nagant 91/30. I have read about 50+ posts and articles and watched hours of YouTube but a lot of them are old from 5-10 years ago. There’s probably a lot newer information available from the members on here. You can find just about anything you need to know in the wiki here

The 91/30 I purchased is a 1934 Izhevsk with a low serial number (122) and hexagon receiver. The serial number matches on all four parts (barrel, butt plate, floor plate, and bolt). The bayonet is a different serial number. Imported by CAI -Georgia, VT Made in Russia State Factory. Izhevsk to be exact

Here are my questions:
1). On the import tag, what does the “X” mean? This is the Importer's "grading" of the rifle. "X" - Excellent. They were import stamped, re-boxed (usually unless entire crates were sold) and "condition" graded by the importers, in the case I am assuming Century.

2). Does the bayonet usually have a matching serial number? Some do, some don't. It is thought that the "matching" bayonets were originally included in the crates, but at the time these guns were selling so fast, the retailers just grabbed any bayonet without regard if it was matching or not.

3). What is the reddish/orange coloring on the barrel serial number and rear sight numbers? This was coloring applied by rifles that were refurbished at the "triangle 25" depot. Somewhere I have documented the name and location of that facility but I can't find it now.

4). Does the brass at the ends of the barrel hand guard signify anything? No, not really. This was used in earlier hand guards and was eventually replaced with painted steel. This was just an hand guard taken from a bin of hand guards when the rifle was refurbished.

5). Is there an update on what the 25 in the triangle means? See above

6). Can anyone make out the partial stamp on the receiver? Looks like something in a circle. Can't tell without a closer picture. But, it's likely some sort of inspection stamp probably.

7). What does the “2” on the bottom of the stock signify? All the triangle 25 rifles had this stamped in that location. I have no idea why though. Other rifles refurbished elsewhere would have this same number and font stamped on the top of the butt stock. I don't think they are related though.

8). To the top left of the barrel serial number there’s a square with no lines in it. What’s that? I don't see this. It could be an inspection stamping or another refurbishment stamping from another facility.

9). To the right of the barrel serial number there’s a square with maybe a circle in it? What’s that? Probably some other unknown arsenal stamping

10). Part A): There’s still cosmoline all over this (in my photos as well). I’m going to use mineral spirits to remove from all the metal and a second wash with dish detergent or simple green before I re-oil. What is the safest method for preserving the bluing / paint (even the reddish orange)? You will not be able to remove the orange paint, so don't worry about that. Nothing I have ever used has even touched it. When removing the the grease (not cosmoline - the Russian's did not every use true cosmoline) use very hot water. This helps break down the grease. Mineral spirits are not really necessary although it works ok. Use one method or the other. And, really, there will remain some residue of grease that can be wiped off with a rag. Then use some sort of preservative on the metal. Doesn't matter what. You can use products from CLP to a light coat of basic motor oil. Bluing will not be affected by such cleaning. Paint either unless the paint has already started to chip. Use your best discretion here, especially with painted metal. I have found that these triangle 25 rifles are for the most part high quality refurbishments.

Part B): What cleaning method is best to preserve the finish on the wood? I’d prefer to clean as best as possible, then use the sun / black trash bag method to clear out the pores. I don’t want to use the oven or heat gun. Those methods work fine for the stock. I have had my best luck putting them in the sun to let them bleed a little. After that there will always be grease residue. You will just have to wipe it down vigorously. Even with that when you are at the range and the stock heats up, you will probably see more weeping. I wouldn't recommend using a heat gun
Well that was a lot of questions. I hope you don’t mind helping me out. Even if you just know the answer to one of them. I’m pretty excited to get this cleaned up and take it out to the range and display it in my gun cabinet. Lots of pictures attached. I crossed off the new serial number on my photos. It looks like some others recommended that in the stickies I’ve read. Hiding the s/n are choices some people use. Although, I've never heard of a Milsurp issues from showing the s/n's. Your choice. No one will look down on your for doing this.

I’ve posted this on some other discussion boards as well. I’m really hoping to get as much knowledge as possible and get my two brothers into these as well.
You should also be diligent with post shooting cleaning of the rifle, especially the bore. There is plenty of information here how to successfully do this. If using modern ammo, follow typical rifle cleaning procedures. If you you surplus ammo, then you risk possible significant corrosion. The key here is hot water down the bore as soon as possible after shooting to remove the corrosive salts deposited by the primer. I, personally, carry a bottle of water to the range and do this immediately after shooting. The key is that typical bore solvents will not remove these salts. Could be as easy as following cleaning procedures for black powder rifles.

Thank you! -Be well, Garry

[GColloton]

Thanks so much for such detailed answers and quick responses!!

[steelbuttplate]

The Font on all those parts is all the same and on the same strait line, font used until '38. I wonder if other specimens with orange numbers have such a closely matching font on all their parts ?

[SA1911a1]

That is a very nice first 91/30. Congrats!

[GColloton]

Thanks again for all of this information and perspective. On the ammo I plan on using, its Brown Bear 174 grain bimetal FMJ bullet lacquered steel case. Non corrosive berdan primer. I just realized it says made in Russia as I type this. So this is considered modern ammo, not surplus, right? I bought a few boxes along with the rifle at the gun shop.

[millman]

Yes that is modern ammo and is supposed to be non corrosive. That said, I clean after using it, just like the corrosive. I use a couple of patches soaked with windex, followed by a couple dry patches, then a couple of wd-40 patches, then clean with Hoppes9. Everyone has their own idea of what needs to be done, so I hope this doesn't devolve into a "cleaning for corrosive" thread. My point is that I don't trust them that it is non corrosive.

[tjtM38]

Yes that is modern ammo and is supposed to be non corrosive. That said, I clean after using it, just like the corrosive. I use a couple of patches soaked with windex, followed by a couple dry patches, then a couple of wd-40 patches, then clean with Hoppes9. Everyone has their own idea of what needs to be done, so I hope this doesn't devolve into a "cleaning for corrosive" thread. My point is that I don't trust them that it is non corrosive.

Yeah; there is as much controversy about this subject as there are people on the forum, but the important thing is to start with a water-based cleaning solution to dissolve the corrosive salts left by the primer. Then you can follow-up with standard solvents and lubrication. Personally, I don't use aggressive type solvents like Sweets 7.62; these weapons are too old for that. I may occasionally use a mild copper solvent, but I never leave it in the barrel for very long. Remember; all surplus 7.62x54r should be considered corrosive and if you use it, you need to clean the weapon in the same day. Otherwise, you will end up with a bore that resembles a rust bucket.

[GColloton]

Just wanted to update that I finally took the time to clean the rifle thoroughly and I think it turned out great. I think I did all right for my first being a 1934 hex with all stamped matching parts and in such great condition. Thanks again for all of the info on this and for helping to learn more about these rifles and what all these markings mean. I guess I’ll have to buy more! Lol.

[ffuries]

Just wanted to update that I finally took the time to clean the rifle thoroughly and I think it turned out great. I think I did all right for my first being a 1934 hex with all stamped matching parts and in such great condition. Thanks again for all of the info on this and for helping to learn more about these rifles and what all these markings mean. I guess I’ll have to buy more! Lol.

Mosin Nagants are like potato chips, you can't stop with just one.........

[awalker1829]

Just wanted to update that I finally took the time to clean the rifle thoroughly and I think it turned out great. I think I did all right for my first being a 1934 hex with all stamped matching parts and in such great condition. Thanks again for all of the info on this and for helping to learn more about these rifles and what all these markings mean. I guess I’ll have to buy more! Lol.

Mosin Nagants are like potato chips, you can't stop with just one.........

Until they start charging over $300 for run of the mill Mosins. Only ones I might spend more on would be Finnish capture guns. Other than that, I’ll pass and spend my money on something else.

[ffuries]

Just wanted to update that I finally took the time to clean the rifle thoroughly and I think it turned out great. I think I did all right for my first being a 1934 hex with all stamped matching parts and in such great condition. Thanks again for all of the info on this and for helping to learn more about these rifles and what all these markings mean. I guess I’ll have to buy more! Lol.

Mosin Nagants are like potato chips, you can't stop with just one.........

Until they start charging over $300 for run of the mill Mosins. Only ones I might spend more on would be Finnish capture guns. Other than that, I’ll pass and spend my money on something else.

True, but I have 4 ea M91/30s, 2 ea M44s, 1 ea Type 53, 1 ea M91, 1 ea Finnish M24, and 1 ea Finnish M91 (1927 Tikkakoski Step barrel). So they did multiply some. My cheapest being $99.00 and the most expensive one being $299.00, I got into the game sort of late.

[awalker1829]

I might pick up a few more if the price is right. The Pandemic and ensuing financial disaster might be an opportunity for those with the means. I’ve already bought my “Trump” Gun.