91/30 sniper with no importation marks

[Flyinggage]

Morning all,

Thanks for having me here. I am currently in the process of purchasing the above. The story I am hearing is that it made its way from Russia after WW II Into Czechoslovakia and then from there into the US.

Again no import marks and not a rework. Has canvas scope cover and the eye piece covers. Not sure of condition but I have purchased from this individual before high end pieces that are 98-100%.

Looking for thoughts on the story and a value.

[Flyinggage]

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[Flyinggage]

Trying to upload pics but I am sure as a new member there will be a hold. He claims the rifle is a 1944 and has both Russian and Czech markings.


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[millman]

Trying to upload pics but I am sure as a new member there will be a hold. He claims the rifle is a 1944 and has both Russian and Czech markings.


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I'll make sure they get approved quickly.

[Miller Tyme]

Very intrested in seeing some pics.

[Junk Yard Dog]

North Korea, or Vietnam I would believe, as both countries received WW2 surplus from the USSR, and had such confiscated and brought home by GI Joe. No import mark would mean Vietnam era ( 1968) or earlier import, and relations between the iron curtain countries and the USA did not extend to weapons importing from them at that time. The only weapons they wanted to export to us back then were ICBM's. Possible it could have been found in the sandbox in the 90's or 2000's by one of our guys. Post wall collapse import would have an import mark, even if it is a tiny one. They sometimes made errors in what they put in import marks, like calling Russian rifle's Mausers, but Uncle has never been casual about omitting the mark entirely on post GCA-68 imports.

[Flyinggage]

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[Flyinggage]

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[Flyinggage]

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[Flyinggage]

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[Flyinggage]

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[Miller Tyme]

From what i see it looks legit, but i dont see anything that identifies it as having been in Czech service.

[Flyinggage]

I appreciate it man.

What would you think it is worth?


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[Junk Yard Dog]

Have you looked up by the muzzle for a tiny import mark as was the custom in the late 80's or early 90's when these started being imported again? the stock has the characteristic shellac wear I would expect from an issued rifle, the bluing looks better than the shellac, but it's hard too tell it's wear from pictures. Problem with the shellac is it was always temporary, a few months in the field and the rifles looked like this. 30 years of range trips and handling by US collectors could possibly cause the same wear. Some of the early imports had brittle shellac that flaked easily, I remember hundreds of questions asking how to stabilize it. I don't buy the Czech story, not without an import mark, but I would believe it's a bringhome from one of the Cold War conflicts were American GI's came in contact with Soviet weaponry. Without provenance it's only a theory, either way it's a nice looking rifle.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Having a look a Czech history also provides information. Post passage of the 1968 amendment to the 1934 Gun Control Act ( GCA68) most milsurp imports were cut off and would remain that way until the law was amended in 1986. Prior to 1968 these rifles would have still been in use by the Czech military, not sold for surplus and likely taken back by the USSR during their intervention in Czechoslovakia in 1968. The buffer states did sell PU snipers and other Mosins, but they sold them to North Vietnam, and other states were communist forces were trying to take over. They did business in the middle east as well, like Syria for instance, in fact we have seen photographs from the current unpleasantness there showing at least one PU in use. Spain sold Mosins here before 1968, but PU's would be too new for Spain to have gotten during their revolution. Finland could have captured some, and likely did during the Continuation war. They did sell some rifles here before '68, but not that many, and as they were still issuing Mosins at that time most exports were the older M91's, not PU's that would have been needed by the army. This will have to be an imagination rifle, as in you have to use your imagination to imagine were it's been.

[Flyinggage]

Thank you for taking the time and sharing hard earned knowledge. I truly appreciate it.

I do not have the rifle in hand yet. It is coming f on a collector who I have found to be very knowledgeable in the past. I have not pried and poked much on his story. I hate doing that until I have the rifle in hand.

Either way it looks to be an honest Sniper to add to my collection. I wil upload more pics once I have them.


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[Flyinggage]

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[Flyinggage]

This is how he is describing it to me. Very curious myself now.


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[Miller Tyme]

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Uhhh, yeah, what Czech markings is he talking about? And what is a Czech "action cover"

As for Czech snipers the had there own, built on the Mosin action, it was called the VZ54. If you ever read about its development, (along with the development of the VZ52) you will see that the Czechs wanted nothing to do with the Russians, or there weapons .

The Czechs are a very proud people that pride themselves on self sufficiency.

Czech VZ54

[Junk Yard Dog]

Anybody can invent whatever story they like when trying to sell something for profit. Providing proof of said story is another matter. You buy the rifle, not the story.