M38 Czeck capture ex-Cossack

[Riva9999]

Hi folks, I just bidded on one of these and won, with receipt expected tomorrow. I saw the Ka3 marks and 1896 tang which look correct in font and placement, and it has a Czech marking which matches the data on this forum. My question is... what would the lineage of this thing be? When might have been captured and under what (general) circumstances? Was the Cossack captured by the Czechs and picked back up by the Soviets for conversion later, or.??? It seems pretty rare so I'd like to learn the possible lineage.

Thanks all!

Aaron

[Longcolt44]

We will have to see pictures of the rifle and all its markings to answer your questions, nice catch.

[neal45]

Sounds like a M91/38. Most of the old speculation is Czech; lately folks are thinking Bulgurian.

Very little is known as to when, where, or why these carbines were created.

Nevertheless, a great find. These usually have quite a premium price over M38s.

[qz2026]

I am convinced that these 91/38's hybrids came from Russian owned surplus/unserviceable M-91 inventory and were bid out to one or, perhaps, multiple countries for manufacture. Whether bid to Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia or other countries like Ukraine or all of them is not fully understood at this time. But after seeing and fondling a fairly large number of these, my suspicions fall into the "multiple" countries scenario. Your Cossack version is fairly rare thus somewhat justifying the price you paid for it.

[Darryl]

My M91/38 has a Czech stock and Czech marks on the receiver. Most of them have Czech marks on the receiver. Bulgaria was a story from a long time ago. It was proven wrong a long time ago, but persists.

However, mine was exported out of Russia. So who knows what the story is on these.

[Riva9999]

Hi folks, thanks for the feedback. Here are a couple pics.

[neal45]

I can't tell, is that a steel or a wood crossbolt?
Is the bolt serial stamped or electro-penciled?
Very nice Mosin.

[qz2026]

My M91/38 has a Czech stock and Czech marks on the receiver. Most of them have Czech marks on the receiver. Bulgaria was a story from a long time ago. It was proven wrong a long time ago, but persists.

However, mine was exported out of Russia. So who knows what the story is on these.

That is the base story that I have always thought due to the stock stampings. It's only a couple of "know it all's" on the other site (one in particular) that persist in the Bulgarian narrative. And I think it is primarily based on the circle T stamp on the receiver. Something like later Bulgarian rifles had such a stamp. But, I have seen and have several late M-44's with that same stock with a bayonet groove cut into them. No question they are Czech to me. That said, there are indications, especially with the inconsistency of the receiver stamping and others (sometimes even on the rear sight) that at least more than one shop built these.

[Riva9999]

Hi all, the bolt body is electropenciled, the rest of the serials are stamped. More pics attached. The cocking piece appears to have a W stamped in it above the center, and oddly the front sight looks like am M44 sight base and globe. The stock looks more like what I've seen on a 91/59 in config and color, perhaps this is a true oddity.

[steelbuttplate]

Hi all, the bolt body is electropenciled, the rest of the serials are stamped. More pics attached. The cocking piece appears to have a W stamped in it above the center, and oddly the front sight looks like am M44 sight base and globe. The stock looks more like what I've seen on a 91/59 in config and color, perhaps this is a true oddity.

It was a M-44 configuration once. Look at the barrel where the bayonet pin hole was filled.

[millman]

Hi all, the bolt body is electropenciled, the rest of the serials are stamped. More pics attached. The cocking piece appears to have a W stamped in it above the center, and oddly the front sight looks like am M44 sight base and globe. The stock looks more like what I've seen on a 91/59 in config and color, perhaps this is a true oddity.

It was a M-44 configuration once. Look at the barrel where the bayonet pin hole was filled.

I have been an administrator here for a long time and into mosins and online for quite some time before that . I don't claim to be an expert on anything, but the majority of these M91/38s I have seen posted up have had the filled pin hole.

[neal45]

This makes the 160th 91/38 in my database.
I've seen all types of stocks, new blond ones usually called "Czech Stocks", lots of recycled M44 stocks, a couple of M38 stocks and quite a few M91 or Dragoon stocks that were modified to fit the carbine. Many of those have no crossbolt and a few have wood crossbolts.
Two 91/38s still have the M44 bayonet attached.

If you are interested in 91/38s and have not seen it, here is the database, updated at the end of each year.

http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.c ... =5&t=21814

[qz2026]

No question that the 91/59 builds were more consistent with their stock finishes, indeed even the stocks. With the 91/38's, they tried but they tended to use any stock that was available - many times the original or period original stock in just about any configuration possible. The later builds used new M-44 stocks with uniquely darkened escutcheons. The box 17 and box 20 stamps on the butt stock are unique to both of these carbines.