M91/M91-30 Hex receiver strenth

[WeldonHunter]

And don't forget the guys that did that torture test years ago that made us all cringe when they dragged an M19/30 around a field behind a pickup truck. That part was done for dramatic purposes and didn't make them any friends in the collectors community but what they did do was they tried to make an M91/30 fail with overloaded cartridges. I forget the specifics but the used the same gun and kept adding higher powder amounts including magnum pistol powder until they had completely full (some even compacted) cartridges. In the end the failure wasn't the barrel or receiver but the bolt heads. The first bolt head failure left the gun still usable after they replaced the bolt head and checked headspace which was good. The second failure left the bolt head locked in the chamber. They ran a bunch of shells through this gun before this failure. Though I hated watching these guys destroy this gun (one they said was a parts gun they put together) it shows one of the reasons I love the Mosin Nagant so much. They're tough as hell and can take more abuse than just about any firearm ever made.

[Lavitias]

Talking about Iraqveteran8888 there Joe one of Youtubes bigger gun channels now. They also did the same thing to a High Point pistol that pretty much showed that any normal use won't cause it to explode haha. The final thing that caused it to give up the ghost minus having a very experienced gun smith work on it. Was range trash i.e all the gunpowder they found at the range at the end of day. So ya know rifle powder, magnum powder, shotshell powder....etc.... also if I remember correctly having watched that video recently was it wasn't the bolt head that failed at all in either test the pressure was so much it just set the locking lugs back further into the receiver but it would still pass the field gauge test.

[WeldonHunter]

Talking about Iraqveteran8888 there Joe one of Youtubes bigger gun channels now. They also did the same thing to a High Point pistol that pretty much showed that any normal use won't cause it to explode haha. The final thing that caused it to give up the ghost minus having a very experienced gun smith work on it. Was range trash i.e all the gunpowder they found at the range at the end of day. So ya know rifle powder, magnum powder, shotshell powder....etc.... also if I remember correctly having watched that video recently was it wasn't the bolt head that failed at all in either test the pressure was so much it just set the locking lugs back further into the receiver but it would still pass the field gauge test.

Yeah I know who it made, just wasn't going to say his name. He didn't make many friends around here dragging that rifle around a field behind a truck when he made that video years ago. I know I wasn't to happy to see it even if it was a parts gun. Yes it was the locking lugs in both cases, first time it "set" them back .006" is what he said if I remember correctly (my memory sucks now and I just watched both videos last night) but they're part of the bolt head and the first failure was repaired with a replacement bolt head. That is unless the space where the lugs lock in to the receiver is what he means by the locking lugs were "set back" but if that's the case a new bolt head shouldn't have fixed that the first time he stated it "set the locking lugs back". I don't know, I'm not a gunsmith just an old retired auto mechanic. My main point is neither the receiver or the barrel failed, as in blew up, from these extreme pressures and that's what he expected to happen.

[Denny-]

Thanks to all for all the info in this great thread. I have wondered for many years what kind of steel was used for Mosin receivers and barrels, and recently Ratnik posted this chart showing the composition and heat treatments used for the rifles(at least for the rifles in the 1930's). I think this chart is also in his latest book.

1930MosinSteelRow1Barrel Row2BarrelandReceiver.jpg

In referencing my copy of Hatchers Notebook the Mosin steel is similar in composition to the Springfield Armory Class C Steel (except the Mosin Steel has higher points of Silicon and less points of Manganese). The Springfield Class C was used in US-Krag Jorgensen receivers, 1917 Enfield barrels, and M1 30 cal. carbine barrels. Hatcher also points out that the receiver strength is also determined by the way the cartridge case is supported by the rear end of the chamber. The Mauser and the T-99 have more metal support around the end of the case and are stronger than the Springfields (the later leave a small amount of the case end exposed). The Krag and the Mosin use rimmed cartidges which eliminates the case end overhand and gives extra strength. The Japanese T-38 uses a semi rimmed case, and because of the case end support and minimal extractor groove, has a stronger action than the Springfield, Enfield, or Mauser.

Anyways...a little old info that is still valid. Denny

[Junk Yard Dog]

Receiver strength is mostly something guys building wildcat sporters are concerned with. All military rifles have receivers more than good enough to handle the issue cartridge, plus extra.

[Lavitias]

Yeah I know who it made, just wasn't going to say his name. He didn't make many friends around here dragging that rifle around a field behind a truck when he made that video years ago. I know I wasn't to happy to see it even if it was a parts gun. Yes it was the locking lugs in both cases, first time it "set" them back .006" is what he said if I remember correctly (my memory sucks now and I just watched both videos last night) but they're part of the bolt head and the first failure was repaired with a replacement bolt head. That is unless the space where the lugs lock in to the receiver is what he means by the locking lugs were "set back" but if that's the case a new bolt head shouldn't have fixed that the first time he stated it "set the locking lugs back". I don't know, I'm not a gunsmith just an old retired auto mechanic. My main point is neither the receiver or the barrel failed, as in blew up, from these extreme pressures and that's what he expected to happen.

Oh I totally get it Joe but since it was a torture test and he pretty much said they were trying to find out what would kill it. I think the dragging it through the field is the least offensive part honestly. I mean it would of been banged up much worse sure but would still be one more Mosin out there for everyone. Now the intentionally trying to blow it up part is a completely different matter.

[WeldonHunter]

Yeah I know who it made, just wasn't going to say his name. He didn't make many friends around here dragging that rifle around a field behind a truck when he made that video years ago. I know I wasn't to happy to see it even if it was a parts gun. Yes it was the locking lugs in both cases, first time it "set" them back .006" is what he said if I remember correctly (my memory sucks now and I just watched both videos last night) but they're part of the bolt head and the first failure was repaired with a replacement bolt head. That is unless the space where the lugs lock in to the receiver is what he means by the locking lugs were "set back" but if that's the case a new bolt head shouldn't have fixed that the first time he stated it "set the locking lugs back". I don't know, I'm not a gunsmith just an old retired auto mechanic. My main point is neither the receiver or the barrel failed, as in blew up, from these extreme pressures and that's what he expected to happen.

Oh I totally get it Joe but since it was a torture test and he pretty much said they were trying to find out what would kill it. I think the dragging it through the field is the least offensive part honestly. I mean it would of been banged up much worse sure but would still be one more Mosin out there for everyone. Now the intentionally trying to blow it up part is a completely different matter.

Yeah like I said it was good to see first hand what these old girls are capable of but the whole thing made me cringe. I'm kind of weird about my firearms. I don't lay them in the dirt or grass and do everything I can to not scratch them. Been that way about most things I own. I just came in from dispatching a possum with an old Stevens model 62 that I rehabed and I won't lay that on the ground when I'm removing varmints. Sometimes there's nothing around me when I'm out in the field and if I need both hands I take the rifle to something to lean it against. I've had something going after my chickens the last few days so I'm on patrol at nights now until I clean the place up a bit. Dogs died a few years ago so it's up to me for now. Something got through the fence on the main coup last night and scared the crap out of them. They wouldn't come out of the run through the house for me to let them out yesterday and when it got dark they absolutely wouldn't go in the house. There's a step stool in there I use to stand on to look in the nest boxes that was knocked over and I seem to be missing one of the younger chickens. The fig tree is (was) full of figs and everything is up here raiding it. I haven't been able to get the coons that are up here yet. I saw three of them in the back field a little while ago and one was at the tree earlier but by the time I get the rifle and head out they're gone.

[Lavitias]

I got a PSL you can borrow so you don't have to leave you lazy boy :p

[WeldonHunter]

I got a PSL you can borrow so you don't have to leave you lazy boy :p

That or I could just get my AK out but I have way to much respect for the neighbors in my area to do that to them, lol.