1937 Izhevsk 91/30 from Afghanistan

[Anzac15]

Hi there, new to the forum! Thought I'd start off with a Mosin I found at an arms show over the weekend. Apologies in advance if this is not in the right spot.
So here it is..a 1937 Izhevsk 91/30 that allegedly was brought back from Afghanistan (and it looks it), absolutely no finish left, appears to have never been back to the former Soviet Union (no rear sight base pin, no import mark, etc) appears to retain the original stock. Decent cartouche on the butt.
Unfortunately it came with no bolt. Magazine is full of fine sand and dead beetles.
The one thing that is the big head scratcher, and that I would really like to get an answer to, is the muzzle. It is counterbored, but appears to be 'threaded' on the inside. I have never seen anything like it.
Enjoy the pics...look forward to hearing some thoughts on the muzzle! Glad to be here.

[ffuries]

Threaded barrel might be from a muzzle brake having been installed. Front sight is MIA, also what is the discoloration between the front barrel band and sling slot? It's visible on both the barrel and stock, it's right in line with the felt of the stand in the 5th picture. Could be from a sling being installed around the barrel and stock.

The finish or lack of does look like the finish of my Afghan Snider Enfield bringback. They have a tendency to polish everything above the wood line down to the bare metal. That not to say it is a bringback just making an observation.

Look forward to hearing what others say about your rifle.

ETA: Where's my manners welcome to the madness!

[Longcolt44]

Cool rifle, I'm thinking one of the Afghani gunsmiths used a homemade drill bit or crude bit of some kind to do a counterbore job. Bolts are available but get it all cleaned up, do not mess with the stocks finish, and see if you can get a good picture of the counterbore so we can see if it has hurt the rifling at all. When you get it cleaned up you will know if the counterbore worked as the bullet will come out straight or do cartwheels to the target. Can't tell but has the buttstock been cut down or is the buttplare still there.

[ffuries]

Cool rifle, I'm thinking one of the Afghani gunsmiths used a homemade drill bit or crude bit of some kind to do a counterbore job. Bolts are available but get it all cleaned up, do not mess with the stocks finish, and see if you can get a good picture of the counterbore so we can see if it has hurt the rifling at all. When you get it cleaned up you will know if the counterbore worked as the bullet will come out straight or do cartwheels to the target. Can't tell but has the buttstock been cut down or is the buttplare still there.

Good catch on the buttstock/buttplate I didn't notice that!

[Miller Tyme]

That's is more than likely a SCW rifle that was turned into a floor lamp at one point, that's why the barrel is threaded.

[ffuries]

That's is more than likely a SCW rifle that was turned into a floor lamp at one point, that's why the barrel is threaded.

Bolt MIA to allow the wiring to go up to the bulb receptacle...........that never crossed my mind!

[Anzac15]

Seriously doubt this is an SCW. I've had many of them, this looks nothing like them. Way too much fine sand inside it, very similar to Lebels, Sniders, Martinis that have been brought back from that region.
Wouldn't dare mess with the stock. Yes, it has been shortened in an odd way. No buttplate.
The 'threading' is definitely a counterbore of some kind. Also, was almost certainly never a lamp as the rod I ran through the bore dislodged some of the foulest matter I've ever seen. A lovely mixture of oil, dirt and who knows what else. Good news is that the bore turned out better than I thought it would.
In answer to the question about the discoloration between the front barrel band and sling slot, the front barrel band had been positioned there for quite a while. I just tapped it forward to its proper place.

[Anzac15]

Here are a couple of pics, little clearer of the muzzle. It looks 'threaded', but the grooves appear symmetrical, like nothing would screw in...just short of an inch in I'd say. Weird.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Welcome to the board, provenance, without it what you have is a theory or a story, interesting, but with no resale value. Capture papers, or a notarized written statement by the soldier who captured and brought it home would be provenance accepted by collectors. Sand does not necessarily mean the sand box, if that were so then 90% of my Finnish Mosins would be former Taliban weapons as they had a lot of fine sand under the wood. This was from sand bags used on the rifle ranges in Finland. The home done counterbore looks too clean and recent, it doesn't look like it's seen years of rifle fire, cleaning rods, and general abuse in Afghanistan. We have had people show up here in years past who had attempted their own counterbores, from what I recall at least one of them looked like that. American Bubba, or Afghan Bubba, same skill level so nothing proven there either, The overall appearance of the rifle is similar to some of the more beat SCW rifles I have seen, or ones used in the Balkans, not to mention rifles dragged out of Bubba's shed. Soviet weapons abound in Afghanistan, most of them from a later period, and Mosins are not outside of the realm of possibility, but without that provenance it's just a story . Cool rifle all the same, it's got the look of an artifact of history, the kind of shit that has my eyes pass over all the pretty unissued rifles and lock on target.

[racerguy00]

I agree with Miller on this one. I recently took apart a type 99 Arisaka that had been turned into a lamp and it was a dead ringer for this rifle. No bolt either. It had been stored in a shed for who knows how long and had tons of dirt and dead bugs in it.

Serial number also puts it smack in the middle of known SCW rifles, one only being 500 off.

[steelbuttplate]

I agree with Miller on this one. I recently took apart a type 99 Arisaka that had been turned into a lamp and it was a dead ringer for this rifle. No bolt either. It had been stored in a shed for who knows how long and had tons of dirt and dead bugs in it.

Serial number also puts it smack in the middle of known SCW rifles, one only being 500 off.

I need a serial number checked on a '36 Tula hex rifle against that reference.

[entropy]

See, I'm not the only one who's pics show up upside down!

[Anzac15]

Yeah...what's up with that?? Can't get mine upright to save my life!

[Darryl]

I downloaded your photo, then flipped it right side up. Then attached it back here. What's the problem?

It's in your computer? Not here.

test2.jpg

[JC 762]

That has an odd looking cleaning rod as well ,maybe that can help identify were it might have been.

[lthilsdorf]

That rifle screams SCW. Cleaning rod is even the style of a Spanish replacement. See my website for other examples.

Nice cartouche on that stock.

[zeebill]

That floor lamp with a story was not expensive I hope? Never buy the story always look at what you are getting for a rifle or a lamp in this case. Sorry I have seen this a number of times and there is no reason for me to think otherwise. Learn a lesson and build the lamp the rest of the way I would say. The fact that the threads internally look screwed up may be the reason it was being sold too I am afraid. Without the bolt and maybe the butt plate too and with the bore maybe being screwed up. less than $100 worth of parts. Learn your lesson and move on is your best bet. Sorry Bill

[steelbuttplate]

That floor lamp with a story was not expensive I hope? Never buy the story always look at what you are getting for a rifle or a lamp in this case. Sorry I have seen this a number of times and there is no reason for me to think otherwise. Learn a lesson and build the lamp the rest of the way I would say. The fact that the threads internally look screwed up may be the reason it was being sold too I am afraid. Without the bolt and maybe the butt plate too and with the bore maybe being screwed up. less than $100 worth of parts. Learn your lesson and move on is your best bet. Sorry Bill

The Bolt was in the way of the electric cord thru the barrel, got put aside and was lost. Build the lamp, sell it for $250 and buy a rifle. But since the damage is done, couldn't you get it counterbored same depth as the threads and find a bolt ? If it has rifling left.

[zeebill]

The Bolt was in the way of the electric cord thru the barrel, got put aside and was lost. Build the lamp, sell it for $250 and buy a rifle. But since the damage is done, couldn't you get it counterbored same depth as the threads and find a bolt ? If it has rifling left.[/quote

Yes you could but trying to save money of a bolt, possible stock if butt plate area of stock is cut flat, gunsmithing fees for counter bore, possible multiple bolt heads to get head space right, and time involved I would again say the die is cast it is closer, cheaper, and safer to a lamp. Just trying to point owner in a direction where he doesn't throw good money after bad. I did that for far too many years and I try like hell to keep you guys from doing it. Another words learn from the dumb old man how he screwed up so many times and save yourself some time and money! Bill

[steelbuttplate]

The Bolt was in the way of the electric cord thru the barrel, got put aside and was lost. Build the lamp, sell it for $250 and buy a rifle. But since the damage is done, couldn't you get it counterbored same depth as the threads and find a bolt ? If it has rifling left.[/quote

Yes you could but trying to save money of a bolt, possible stock if butt plate area of stock is cut flat, gunsmithing fees for counter bore, possible multiple bolt heads to get head space right, and time involved I would again say the die is cast it is closer, cheaper, and safer to a lamp. Just trying to point owner in a direction where he doesn't throw good money after bad. I did that for far too many years and I try like hell to keep you guys from doing it. Another words learn from the dumb old man how he screwed up so many times and save yourself some time and money! Bill

Best advice.