m38 still not working right. VERY DEPRESSED. HELP!!!

[z31jaime]

according to this my pin is correct...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aUoLZ1OweM

[desdem12]

I'm pretty sure it isn't the pin cause you have tried 3 different bolts and have had the same problem. I think we have narrowed it down to some thing in the chamber area or in the extractor channel. I am sure that when this gun was issued it had to be in working order or it would've been sent back to the armourer and fixed and half as sure that it should work when placed in storage. Beyond that though i surely don't know.

[Sgt. Rob]

Head space been checked, right? Cause I am thinking if it is tight chambering maybe a couple turns with a pull through chamber reamer might be in order. Hard to say with out having it in hand.

Semper Fi, Rob

[z31jaime]

Yes Buckeyesgt (Drew) sent me his NO GO guage, it did not close, tried with all they bolts and got the same result.


Ok so can anyone send me Pix of what the extractor notch againt the wall should look like. not the area around the barrel but the outside wall, mine seems to have two "edges" where they look like the machining wasnt smooth. Maybe the 2nd wall need to be taken down a bit.



Also I was thinking, if I remove the extractor and chamber a round, and it closes that should tell me if the MIN. headspace it ok right? if without the extractor it still refuses to close then my headspace would be not enough? althought with 3 different bolts I find that hard to think..

[mogunner]

Dried up cosmoline in the extractor cutout hitting the extractor? That thing is a pain to clean out.

[WeldonHunter]

Dried up cosmoline in the extractor cutout hitting the extractor? That thing is a pain to clean out.

If the bolt closes with no round chambered and also closes with a snapcap that's shorter than live ammo it's not an extractor problem. You said you have rounds that chamber and I'm assuming they're rounds that you've used over and over. Are they the same overall length as a round that has never been in the rifle? Look very closely or even measure them with calipers.

[z31jaime]

What I have found is the rounds that work have a smaller "rim" than the ones that won't. were talking a finger nail. the ones that work have the same rim size as the snap caps. SO that had me thinking that as the extractor goes to clip over the larger rims its hitting on something on that outside wall.

[WeldonHunter]

Yeah that's possible but if I remember correctly you put a round in the bolt while the bolt was out ond then inserted it and had the same problem didn't you. Doing it this way bypasses the ejector going over the shells rim. Here's the best pictures I could get right now. I can try some more tomorrow with better light and maybe a mirror.

[MN Fan]

Wow, those are some nice photos Mike! I tried and tried to get that quality and my camera fought back the entire time. Nice job

[z31jaime]

great pix, but what I really need, and its probably gonna be impossable with a camara is a shot of the outside edge of that "slit" up againt the recever wall.


Of if someone can tell me should that be a clean flush transition, of should it have a "stepped" transisition from the wall to the slit?

[WeldonHunter]

great pix, but what I really need, and its probably gonna be impossable with a camara is a shot of the outside edge of that "slit" up againt the recever wall.


Of if someone can tell me should that be a clean flush transition, of should it have a "stepped" transisition from the wall to the slit?

If the bolt closes properly with no round in it and then you put a round in the bolt manually like I described before and insert it into the chamber it eliminates what you're looking for. When I round is already in the bolt the extractor is at rest. Then when you insert the bolt with the round in it back into the rifle and seat it in the chamber the extractor didn't need to go over the rim so it can't rub anything. The extractor should be in the same place in relationship to the bolt head at rest (with no cartridge in it) as it is with one in the bolt head. The only time the extractor moves outward is when overriding the rim of a cartridge. The step I'm telling you to do is to eliminate this as a posibility because the extractor is already over the rim of the cartridge.

[z31jaime]

OK SO I THINK I JUST MADE SOME PROGRESS THANKS TO WLEDON HUNTER!!!!!!!!!!

so I tried his suggestion of putting the round on the bolt and then putting the bolt in with the round into the gun, so I get to the point where you have to hold the trigger for the bolt to enter and it refuses to go. that was with one of the rounds that wouldn't close. SO I grab a snap cap and try it... and GUESS WHAT!!!!!! it won't stay in the bolt head, it just dances right off the extractor.... so I grab the other rounds that work, and sure enought they are doing the same...

SO then I grab Buckeyes bolt he sent me and try the snap caps on his and sure enough its night and tight. BUT LIKE THE orignal bolt refuses to close on the rounds.... so I try the steps suggested by Weldon on this bolt, and sure enough it goes in, and closes without a problem....

SO I have established a difference between the 3 bolts I have, in that the extractor space is different, with the bigger spaced one (orignal bolt with replaced extractor) I'm able to feed more rounds than with the others. BUT THEY ALL WORK WITH THE SNAP CAPS. but none will work on the rounds that the orignal will not clip over. I'm still thinking something in the rifle is preventing the extractor from clipping over the rims. with the other rounds beeing loose it lest them wiggle around inside so the extractor closes easier.... right???? just guessing.

[z31jaime]

Dried up cosmoline in the extractor cutout hitting the extractor? That thing is a pain to clean out.

If the bolt closes with no round chambered and also closes with a snapcap that's shorter than live ammo it's not an extractor problem. You said you have rounds that chamber and I'm assuming they're rounds that you've used over and over. Are they the same overall length as a round that has never been in the rifle? Look very closely or even measure them with calipers.

To my nakid eye they look the same, if you look on page 5 you will see the 3 rounds I have, 1 pop cap, 1 surplus, and one NEW wolf amm. all three are different sizes, the small pop caps go without issue, I've gotten 5 of the surplus ones to go, and NON of the WOLF stuff. so I have no idea whats up.

[MN Fan]

I think I am following you

And congrats, you have the most finicky Mosin ever made

Real quick...when you remove the bolt, your firing pin is cocked. Inserting a live round into the bolt face at this point is extremely risky. Pulling the trigger anytime a live round is in the receiver is also very dangerous. I know you're working outside with it...just don't want to lose you now that you're getting close.

It is very possible that the gap between the bolt face and the back side of the extractor is not enough to clip over the case rim.

For what its worth, I duplicated the experiment with a snap cap and on mine, it stays tight on the bolt face and insets easily into the chamber.

You guys may be on to something!

[WeldonHunter]

First off you don't need to use the trigger to insert the bolt back into the rifle. It should go with a little resistance. Try it with no round in the bolt. The only time you need to use the trigger is to remove the bolt.

[z31jaime]

Right but in my case, with the snap cap I have refuses to stay on, like the extractor is too loose to hold it on, but on the other bolts it clips on fine. But neather will close on my Rifle.


Apon, inspection, the extractor on my Bolt looks to be slightly pushed out, on Drews bolt and on My 2nd bolt the extractor follows the same lines as the bolt, with mine the extractor has a slight bending out from the bolt....this could be causeing the issue of not holding the snap caps and other rounds, I forced it so much I bent the extractor out???????

[z31jaime]

First off you don't need to use the trigger to insert the bolt back into the rifle. It should go with a little resistance. Try it with no round in the bolt. The only time you need to use the trigger is to remove the bolt.

Thanks i didn't know that!!!! just tried it and it worked just like you said.


PS

Awesome I'm up to SGT!!!! LOL

[WeldonHunter]

First off you don't need to use the trigger to insert the bolt back into the rifle. It should go with a little resistance. Try it with no round in the bolt. The only time you need to use the trigger is to remove the bolt.

Thanks i didn't know that!!!! just tried it and it worked just like you said.

Whew!!! you had me worried there. So once you're past that point with a round in the bolt and you continue to push the round into the chamber once it seats and you're turning the bolt how far does it turn to before it stops?

[z31jaime]

doing it the way you say, on the 2 bolts that didn't come with it, it goes all the way. cycles fine, MY bolt refuses to go in, I'm thinking the extractor is bent out. Which would explain why some of the round go and most dont.


also the Pic that I was asking for the lug race....

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinReceiver.htm

Look at the Pix for the cut and uncut lug race..... mine looks like an uncut lug race but closer to the extractor ridge... so like they did a "half" or "3/4" cut race...

[WeldonHunter]

doing it the way you say, on the 2 bolts that didn't come with it, it goes all the way. cycles fine, MY bolt refuses to go in, I'm thinking the extractor is bent out. Which would explain why some of the round go and most dont.


also the Pic that I was asking for the lug race....

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinReceiver.htm

Look at the Pix for the cut and uncut lug race..... mine looks like an uncut lug race but closer to the extractor ridge... so like they did a "half" or "3/4" cut race...

I don't think that makes much difference here. The fact that other bolts go in and cycle rounds makes me lean more towards a problem with the original bolt and mainly the extractor. Just to clarify. The other bolts work correctly right? It's only the original one that doesn't?