m38 still not working right. VERY DEPRESSED. HELP!!!

[z31jaime]

OK so In the last few Min, I've gone from 3 surplus rounds to 5 surplus rounds that cycle every time. 2 require some effort to get it to close, the other 3 are like butter, It still wont close on ANY wolf ammo or any other surplus rounds....


One of the ones that cycles like butter is the one I colored black in the photos above, which refused to close yesterday, SO i guess thats progress.


Additionaly Thanks to MNFANs suggestion of coloring it back I can now see 2 clear spots where the "paint" is worn off...

one is on the case right in the middle of the "neck" (where it reduces in size by the round), the other is on the round itself about the same distance up, but on the opposite side of the round.....


Should i continue to clean with the brush? or is using it with a drill to much?

[desdem12]

I would keep going till i found out what was the matter. Has anything come out to see what it is and have you tried the boiling water followed by a regular brush and clean? Sounds like you are making headway.

[MN Fan]

Hey, congrats on the new Mosin! You don't need that M38 now...I will be watching my mail box closely

I agree, it sounds like you're making headway. I'd follow the previous suggestions and continue to clean. One thing to keep in mind...it is probable that you will see some wearing of the sharpie mark even with a good cycle. The casing/bullet is bound to make some contact as its being chambered. But, you have to sort of envision what is happening and compare it to the mark. If there's something that looks like its causing a blunt wear spot, then the round is being forced into an obsctruction. If there's light, straight scratch marks, those are likely normal rubbing. A heavy scratch mark of course is not good.

You're close...keep at it

[z31jaime]

Hey, congrats on the new Mosin! You don't need that M38 now...I will be watching my mail box closely

I agree, it sounds like you're making headway. I'd follow the previous suggestions and continue to clean. One thing to keep in mind...it is probable that you will see some wearing of the sharpie mark even with a good cycle. The casing/bullet is bound to make some contact as its being chambered. But, you have to sort of envision what is happening and compare it to the mark. If there's something that looks like its causing a blunt wear spot, then the round is being forced into an obsctruction. If there's light, straight scratch marks, those are likely normal rubbing. A heavy scratch mark of course is not good.

You're close...keep at it

They are Horizontal markes, not vertical, so I'm fairly sure its not "normal" scratches. and agan the spots they are showing, seem to be the 2 spots the snap caps are "thinner" at, so Its looking like that might be the problem, I got more surplus ammo at the store, I'm gonna try a few of them to see if its any different.


I picked up a 1993 Tula, its got 3 markins on the side of the reciver, sorta where the sniper plugs would be on a sniper, but they are markings not plugs. All numbers match except for the Mag, which was force matched. looks 10X cleaner than my M38, I'm super excited about it.

[WeldonHunter]

Remember one thing. You're using the same rounds over and over and it is possible you still have the same problem and the reason the older rounds are cycling is because the projectile is pushed back into the shell. Check the height of the rounds that cycle against a similar round that hasn't been in the gun. If the older rounds are pushed back then you're on the right track and it's something in the throat where the projectile sits. Don't rule out old bullet jacketing. If there's a piece of jacket broken off in there you can clean this forever and not fix this.

[z31jaime]

how can I check for that? this thing is 100% clean, nothing else it could be, except a bur or a peace of jacket that i'm not seeing... or something else. tried 3 different bolts and they all do the same think.

[BostonMike]

Do you have access to a bore scope or any tool to let you inspect the chamber?


I've found that snap caps tend to be undersized compared to live ammo. Had a mosin that would cycle snaps, but not feed live ammo. Ended up being the ejector "slot" being slightly damaged. Was an easy fix, but the slight difference between snap caps and live rounds was a huge difference


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[desdem12]

I am so curious as to the trouble here. I am still betting it could be fixed easily. Have you used the M38 bolt in the other mosin you bought and if so does it work there? It could be a problem with the extractor channel or the chamber. I use high magnified reading glasses and a flashlight to check it. I have time and again found dried cosmo in that channel and have had to scrap it out.

[WeldonHunter]

I am so curious as to the trouble here. I am still betting it could be fixed easily. Have you used the M38 bolt in the other mosin you bought and if so does it work there? It could be a problem with the extractor channel or the chamber. I use high magnified reading glasses and a flashlight to check it. I have time and again found dried cosmo in that channel and have had to scrap it out.

I'm with you Des, this is a puzzler. One other thing to try is remove the bolt and drop a round into the chamber. Look to see if the rim is seating completely into the chamber. Do this with a round that's never been in the gun. Also have you compared the rounds you've been using to one that's never been in the gun? Are they the same height? I'm talking about one of the rounds that you said would chamber.

[BostonMike]

I would suggest that too. Remove the bolt, point the muzzle down and drop a round in. Does it drop right in? Now tilt muzzle up....does the round slide out freely?


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[WeldonHunter]

I would suggest that too. Remove the bolt, point the muzzle down and drop a round in. Does it drop right in? Now tilt muzzle up....does the round slide out freely?


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What I'm looking for is does a round that's never been in the rifle drop in to where it's supposed with the rim all the way seated. Here's some pictures of one that is seated properly.

[MN Fan]

If you trust me, mail me the rifle. I'll fix it at my expense and return it to you. It would be worth it to see first hand what is going on.

[z31jaime]

OK guys update,

I got home at 5pm and the Rifle is still in parts, I took it all the way down to make it more easy to clean the chamber.

to answer everyone question yes rounds seat all the way.

so here is how my afternoon went....

took a Mop heads and cleaned the rifle with Hoppes #9 (on a power drill UP AND DOWN FOR several min.). Although I had cleaned it for about 2 hours when I first got it I did get alot more dirt out. Then I took some Rem oil and a copper brush, and repeated the above step with the wire brush. Then cleaned with cloths, repeated the steps above about 4 times.

once there I noticed what I thought was a Burr up near the "throat" around where the marks on the round I colored were. I took a clean Mop head, and some metal polish/cleaner and went at it again with the drill. but then I got stuck with polish gunk in my corners that wouldn't come out, so I took a different head soaked it in Hoppes 9, and started all over with step one again.

its at this point that I figured, if its not clean with all this its never going to be. the cloths come out clean, when I hold it up to the light everything is smooth and clean. so I put her all back together and try a round..... AGAIN no dice.


I will say that I dropped rounds in without the bolt in, and its a lot smoother than before, before some rounds would get stuck and I'd have to tap it on the ground for them to drop out, now they are ALL dropping in and out like butter.

So I started plating with the gun and looking at where the "jam" happens, I took the gun and cycled the bolt about 20 times with nothing in the chamber, when I took it out.....


MNFAN looked to be right, the top of the extractor head is no longer black.

I then thought to myself "k but why some rounds and not others", I then decided to check the "rims" of the rounds, and sure enought the snap caps and rounds that go are slightly smaller than the ones that will not go.

so it looks like I can narrow the issue down to the extractor slot, my 2 questions are....


1. whats a "good" slot look like,?

2. How do I clean/fix mine, it seems like a difficult place to get to.?

[BostonMike]

I'm in the middle of cleaning my rifle, so I'll try to get some pics with my iPhone.

First up, the bolt just to show how the extractor sits.

Next, I'll attempt to get some pics of the extractor cut



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[MN Fan]

Normally I wouldn't recommend modifying anything other than general cleaning. But, you've come this far and SO close, I think its worth one more shot....

I suggest getting some fine grit emery cloth and wrap a layer around a popsicle stick or something similar. You want to use something flat and stiff, but still a bit flexible. Then lightly polish the outside, face and chamfer of your extractor. Since it's black already, I'd sand it a bit until it's shiney, then try cycling it again. If still no luck, color it up with a sharpie so you can tell where you're sanding and repeat.

Since you replaced the extractor (which I believe was the problem in the first place), this one may be an aftermarket or reproduction. I saw the Ebay ad and find it a bit odd that they are black, but who knows, it may be original.

Give 'er hell one more time. You'll get it...

[BostonMike]

Let's try this




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[WeldonHunter]

Normally I wouldn't recommend modifying anything other than general cleaning. But, you've come this far and SO close, I think its worth one more shot....

I suggest getting some fine grit emery cloth and wrap a layer around a popsicle stick or something similar. You want to use something flat and stiff, but still a bit flexible. Then lightly polish the outside, face and chamfer of your extractor. Since it's black already, I'd sand it a bit until it's shiney, then try cycling it again. If still no luck, color it up with a sharpie so you can tell where you're sanding and repeat.

Since you replaced the extractor (which I believe was the problem in the first place), this one may be an aftermarket or reproduction. I saw the Ebay ad and find it a bit odd that they are black, but who knows, it may be original.

Give 'er hell one more time. You'll get it...

The problem with working on the extractor is he tried a different bolt with a different extractor and still had the same problem.

[MN Fan]

Good point Mike...

Well, short of continuing to clean, I am at a loss of what more to do without having the rifle in my hands.

Since it did pass the headspace check, I'd say %^$# it, find some rounds that will cycle OK and go shoot it. Hell, maybe the heat and shock will loosen up whatever it causing it to hang up.

[WeldonHunter]

Good point Mike...

Well, short of continuing to clean, I am at a loss of what more to do without having the rifle in my hands.

Since it did pass the headspace check, I'd say %^$# it, find some rounds that will cycle OK and go shoot it. Hell, maybe the heat and shock will loosen up whatever it causing it to hang up.

Yeah it may but it may also go boom in a big way. I'd say it's still some sort of obstruction in the chamber/throat. The bolt's been eliminated by using a different bolt with the same results. The headspacing shows that the machining for the rim of the cartridge is probably correct. Putting a round in the bolt by hand out of the gun and inserting eliminates the extractor over riding the rim but then again so did the different bolt. The marks on the sheel from using magic marker shows something is touching the projectile and that's in the chamber. I still believe it's a chamber problem. Remember that the way these are machined when you manually insert a round with the bolt removed it looks like the rim is not seated. It looked that way to me when I did it. If you can get some clear pictures of the chamber, maybe with a light shining from the muzzle end it might help. We could also see the extractor groove. Oh and one other thing. Are you using a new round to test the chamber without the bolt installed. I mean one that's never been in the gun and are the new rounds the same height as the ones you've been using to test cycling the bolt?

[MN Fan]

What is your firing pin depth? The bolt has been dismantled and re-assembled...did anyone check the firing pin?
On the rounds you've cycled, are there any marks on the primer?

I wouldn't cycle any more live rounds unless you're outdoors in a legal shooting area and with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.