M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

"Collectors Forum" - All Mosin Nagant are discussed here. Also the Russian and "Finnish capture" SVT38 and SVT40. This is an excellent place for new Mosin owners to ask questions. We have some of the best experts here looking forward to your questions. If you post a Mosin sniper rifle here, we may or may not move it to the sniper forum.

Preservation forum, please no altered military surplus rifles or discussions on altering in this forum. No sportsters. Please read the rules at the top of each forum
Post Reply
User avatar
EddieD25
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA

M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

Post by EddieD25 »

Hey guys! Been a while since I've posted but have been checking posts every once in a while. My Mosin addiction hasn't come to an end haha. I recently bought an M39 and yesterday picked up my 1915 Westinghouse. This is my oldest rifle as of now and my first M91. I know it has been "Finned" I guess would be the word. I don't know if it was captured or sold to Finland based off what I have read. I don't see any foreign markings other than Finnish or American. The receiver, barrel, and bolt all seem to be matching. Floor plate and butt plate(no serial number) do not. What I found really cool and interesting is that it was send to the Finnish Civil Guard from the Finnish Army since it has the SS75642 marking on the barrel shank which would make it the Savonlinna Civil Guard District. Correct me if I'm wrong. Other than that I'm pretty happy with it. It has the stock spice that I also have on my M39 that looks like its in the shape of fingers. A few things I'm curious about and don't understand is the "C" stamped on the bolt handle, which I always thought meant Serbia, along with a "B" right below it in the picture I will show below. Also there is a "1" stamped on the receiver. Anything you guys see and would like to explain to me I will really appreciate it! Here are some pics!
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
millman
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6391
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:52 pm
Location: KY

Re: M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

Post by millman »

Nice rifle.
“Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell, English novelist, essayist, and critic, 1903-1950

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C. S. Lewis
User avatar
steelbuttplate
Posts: 3938
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:24 pm
Location: Foxhole in the Smoky Mtns. N.C.

Re: M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

Post by steelbuttplate »

Finnish bought?...post WW1., I'm guessing. Not many like that around. It's not even listed on the rarity list. :thumbsup:
" There are two kinds of people, the good people and the ones that aggravate the hell out of the good people"
User avatar
EddieD25
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA

Re: M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

Post by EddieD25 »

Thank you! And I'm not really sure. It has the Finnish Civil Guard District marked so I know for sure Finland had it last. I have no idea though if it was captured or bought. I'm definitely no where near an expert on these rifles, but did a little reading about Finland buying Mosins from Germany, Austria, Serbia, etc. I don't see any markings saying it was captured by any of those countries during WWI so I'm guessing it was captured by Finland sometime later?
User avatar
bunkysdad
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 10778
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: Mesquite Texas near Dallas

Re: M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

Post by bunkysdad »

You found a very nice rifle. I like that one for sure. I am not sure about the C on the bolt knob, it escapes me at the moment. Congrats on a super cool rifle.
Mangrove
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:54 pm
Location: Finland

Re: M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

Post by Mangrove »

EddieD25 wrote:What I found really cool and interesting is that it was send to the Finnish Civil Guard from the Finnish Army since it has the SS75642 marking on the barrel shank which would make it the Savonlinna Civil Guard District. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Savonlinna Civil Guard District (Savonlinnan suojeluskuntapiiri) didn't exist before 1940. Before the end of the Winter War, the only Civil Guard district in the region was Mikkeli Civil Guard District (Mikkelin suojeluskuntapiiri). If this particular rifle took part of the Winter War, it is unlikely it ever served in the Savonlinna Civil Guard District, but was kept by the Finnish Defence Forces until the dissolution of the Civil Guard in November 1944.

There are usually quite detailed records of various individual rifles transferred from and into the Finnish Defence Forces at the National Archives of Finland.
User avatar
EddieD25
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA

Re: M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

Post by EddieD25 »

bunkysdad wrote:You found a very nice rifle. I like that one for sure. I am not sure about the C on the bolt knob, it escapes me at the moment. Congrats on a super cool rifle.
Thank you! The C is quite the mystery haha. I've found nothing on it still.
User avatar
EddieD25
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA

Re: M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

Post by EddieD25 »

Mangrove wrote:
EddieD25 wrote:What I found really cool and interesting is that it was send to the Finnish Civil Guard from the Finnish Army since it has the SS75642 marking on the barrel shank which would make it the Savonlinna Civil Guard District. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Savonlinna Civil Guard District (Savonlinnan suojeluskuntapiiri) didn't exist before 1940. Before the end of the Winter War, the only Civil Guard district in the region was Mikkeli Civil Guard District (Mikkelin suojeluskuntapiiri). If this particular rifle took part of the Winter War, it is unlikely it ever served in the Savonlinna Civil Guard District, but was kept by the Finnish Defence Forces until the dissolution of the Civil Guard in November 1944.

There are usually quite detailed records of various individual rifles transferred from and into the Finnish Defence Forces at the National Archives of Finland.
Thank you for clearing that up! I found out about someone who will go through the records and find the history of your Finnish Mosin's. Sends you copies of the records apparently and a Certificate of Authenticity. I might try that.
B24
Posts: 337
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:12 pm
Location: North Mississippi

Re: M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

Post by B24 »

That is a nice world traveler you have there, back home where she belongs!
User avatar
ffuries
Posts: 2799
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 3:23 pm
Location: Florida

Re: M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

Post by ffuries »

EddieD25 wrote:
Mangrove wrote:
EddieD25 wrote:What I found really cool and interesting is that it was send to the Finnish Civil Guard from the Finnish Army since it has the SS75642 marking on the barrel shank which would make it the Savonlinna Civil Guard District. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Savonlinna Civil Guard District (Savonlinnan suojeluskuntapiiri) didn't exist before 1940. Before the end of the Winter War, the only Civil Guard district in the region was Mikkeli Civil Guard District (Mikkelin suojeluskuntapiiri). If this particular rifle took part of the Winter War, it is unlikely it ever served in the Savonlinna Civil Guard District, but was kept by the Finnish Defence Forces until the dissolution of the Civil Guard in November 1944.

There are usually quite detailed records of various individual rifles transferred from and into the Finnish Defence Forces at the National Archives of Finland.
Thank you for clearing that up! I found out about someone who will go through the records and find the history of your Finnish Mosin's. Sends you copies of the records apparently and a Certificate of Authenticity. I might try that.
The individual who made the post about the history and the one who does the research is one and the same. Mangrove is the one who does the research.
Mike
TSgt, USAF Retired
Jan 86 - Sept 08
Aircrew Life Support
"Your Life Is Our Business"
(122X0, 1T1X1, 1P0X1)
NRA Life Member
User avatar
EddieD25
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA

Re: M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

Post by EddieD25 »

ffuries wrote:
EddieD25 wrote:
Mangrove wrote:
EddieD25 wrote:What I found really cool and interesting is that it was send to the Finnish Civil Guard from the Finnish Army since it has the SS75642 marking on the barrel shank which would make it the Savonlinna Civil Guard District. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Savonlinna Civil Guard District (Savonlinnan suojeluskuntapiiri) didn't exist before 1940. Before the end of the Winter War, the only Civil Guard district in the region was Mikkeli Civil Guard District (Mikkelin suojeluskuntapiiri). If this particular rifle took part of the Winter War, it is unlikely it ever served in the Savonlinna Civil Guard District, but was kept by the Finnish Defence Forces until the dissolution of the Civil Guard in November 1944.

There are usually quite detailed records of various individual rifles transferred from and into the Finnish Defence Forces at the National Archives of Finland.
Thank you for clearing that up! I found out about someone who will go through the records and find the history of your Finnish Mosin's. Sends you copies of the records apparently and a Certificate of Authenticity. I might try that.
The individual who made the post about the history and the one who does the research is one and the same. Mangrove is the one who does the research.
Yes it is hahaha. I just found that out after emailing him. Pretty funny.
User avatar
SA1911a1
Posts: 5996
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:19 pm
Location: North Florida

Re: M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

Post by SA1911a1 »

EddieD25 wrote:
bunkysdad wrote:You found a very nice rifle. I like that one for sure. I am not sure about the C on the bolt knob, it escapes me at the moment. Congrats on a super cool rifle.
Thank you! The C is quite the mystery haha. I've found nothing on it still.
Serbia used a "C" for marking their property. But it may have nothing to do with that bolt. It could have taken the path: Us, Russia, Imperial Germany, Serbia, Finland, and returned home.
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
cj1964
Posts: 379
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:56 pm

Re: M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

Post by cj1964 »

Captured M91 rifles don't show up very often with Civil Guard numbers. I've seen a couple "in the wild" but I'd venture to say it's a bit uncommon.
Either way - it looks like a nice rifle. Congrats!
User avatar
Darryl
Sniper Expert
Sniper Expert
Posts: 6176
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:33 pm
Location: Northern California
Contact:

Re: M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

Post by Darryl »

Nice old war horse!! I like them best when they have not been touched after the wars. 8-) 8-) 8-)

If ...... it was never in a war, it had to see a Hell of a lot of guard service to look that way. Very nice!!
Dolk
User avatar
EddieD25
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA

Re: M1891 NE Westinghouse. Finnish captured/bought?

Post by EddieD25 »

Thank you guys! Really loving this rifle. Can't wait to see Mangrove's research too!
Post Reply