Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
Hi guys, I'm new here but have been collecting Mosin's for a few years now. My most recent is this 1894 Chatellerault SA marked. It is now my earliest Mosin ( next being a 1906 Tula Finned m91), but unfortunately I'm not particularly well versed in antique Mosin lore, I just knew I had to have this one! The obvious; barrel and receiver are matching, butt plate does not, but has an old Tula hammer mark. Floorplate is not numbered, and has a mark I haven't seen before. Bolt has Tula and Izhevsk stamps. Barrel bands also seem to be of Russian origin. There are some stamps on the barrel shank I was hoping someone can tell me more about as well.
Condition of the rifle is NRA good, for an antique I'd say very good. Bore is dark with strong rifling. Buttplate has some patina but no active rust. Stock has some handling marks and gashes, but pretty normal for a rifle that may have seen action for 50 years. I paid $500 cash and carry, do you guys think I got a fair price? Anything else you guys can tell me about it would be great! Thank you all
Condition of the rifle is NRA good, for an antique I'd say very good. Bore is dark with strong rifling. Buttplate has some patina but no active rust. Stock has some handling marks and gashes, but pretty normal for a rifle that may have seen action for 50 years. I paid $500 cash and carry, do you guys think I got a fair price? Anything else you guys can tell me about it would be great! Thank you all
Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
Here's a pic of the barrel shank with lots of markings I'm hoping someone can identify
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Last edited by 89 Vision on Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:56 am, edited 5 times in total.
Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
Sorry guys having problems uploading pics, I'll keep working on it
Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
Looking forward to more pictures. Chatelleraults don't show up everyday, so you definitely got one of the more rare manufacturers.
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Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
You did Ok considering it's three things in one that collectors look for. Chatellerault, Finn marked, and it's an M91
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
Can anyone identify these marks?
I keep getting HTTP error while trying to upload, any advice for what I'm doing wrong?
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Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
The stock cartouche is most likely the Soviet CCCP mark. See the following link for a better view of the cartouche it's about 12 pics from the bottom.
http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/mis ... index.html
If you are talking about the divot in the right side of the floorplate just before the release pin it's actually a hole. Puspose, drain hole? I just don't remember.
http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/mis ... index.html
If you are talking about the divot in the right side of the floorplate just before the release pin it's actually a hole. Puspose, drain hole? I just don't remember.
Mike
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Jan 86 - Sept 08
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NRA Life Member
TSgt, USAF Retired
Jan 86 - Sept 08
Aircrew Life Support
"Your Life Is Our Business"
(122X0, 1T1X1, 1P0X1)
NRA Life Member
Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
^^^interesting! I thought this rifle was out of Russian hands before CCCP was even a thing.
I'm still trying to get pics to upload. This rifle has no upper handguard, but from what I've read, this is normal on earlier rifles. The rear sling swivel is missing too, in place there is a buckle which looks Finnish to me, leading me to believe it's been that way for a long time. I haven't confirmed yet, but the rifle does not seem to be counter bored either.
I'm still trying to get pics to upload. This rifle has no upper handguard, but from what I've read, this is normal on earlier rifles. The rear sling swivel is missing too, in place there is a buckle which looks Finnish to me, leading me to believe it's been that way for a long time. I haven't confirmed yet, but the rifle does not seem to be counter bored either.
Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
The bottom of the barrel shank has the JSE in an oval stamp, which is an Austrian capture stamp (Johann Springers Erben). Nice Chatellerault. Do you have some pics of the full rifle? Would love to see some more of it.
Lotema
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours. -- Richard Bach
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours. -- Richard Bach
Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
^^^awesome! I was hoping someone could identify that mark. Any idea about the "JH"? Does that mean it was captured in WWI by the Austrians? Does that mean it was sold to the Finns and not "captured"?
I do have a lot more pics, having a hard time adding them though, these are the pics that uploaded fine.
I do have a lot more pics, having a hard time adding them though, these are the pics that uploaded fine.
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Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
If you can resize your pictures to under 640X800 you can load them direct here. Click on the "attachments" bar then the "add files" bar then load from your computer. A nice rifle like that deserves to be seen. Do the above, if that won't work you can always send it to me and I'll post them. Don't forget to send ammo.
FREEDOM...USE IT OR LOSE IT!!
Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
If I remember correctly, the JH was stamped on by Chatellerault. I forget off hand what it was for (or whether it's completely known). I've had a few beers tonight, so I could be wrong on that one89 Vision wrote:^^^awesome! I was hoping someone could identify that mark. Any idea about the "JH"? Does that mean it was captured in WWI by the Austrians? Does that mean it was sold to the Finns and not "captured"?
I do have a lot more pics, having a hard time adding them though, these are the pics that uploaded fine.
Yes, odds would be pretty good that it would have been captured by the Austrians during WWI and then later sold to the Finns. Of course it could have gone through the Germans, made its way through Austria etc but I doubt there's enough documentation around to really say for sure. Austrian capture and then sold to the Finns would be the most likely.
Lotema
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours. -- Richard Bach
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours. -- Richard Bach
Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
The JH was a Chatellerault stamp but I am puzzled by the oval with the letters under the serial number on the barrel shank. I have never seen that before.
Can anyone ID that one?
Can anyone ID that one?
Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
Couple posts upneal45 wrote:The JH was a Chatellerault stamp but I am puzzled by the oval with the letters under the serial number on the barrel shank. I have never seen that before.
Can anyone ID that one?
Lotema
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours. -- Richard Bach
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours. -- Richard Bach
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Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
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Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
^^^^big thank you for posting my pics! I appreciate the assist.
Didn't even notice the German Reich mark until I saw it in the sun. I love this rifle even more now!
Didn't even notice the German Reich mark until I saw it in the sun. I love this rifle even more now!
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Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
VKT 1944 M39
Tula 1935 M91/30
SAKO 1941 M39 Straight stock
Tula 1939 M91/30
Tikka 1942 M91
Tikka 1928 M27
Tula 1936 M91/30 Finnish rebuilt
Tikka 1944 M91/30
SAKO 1942 M39
Tula 1930 M91 Dragoon Finnish capture
SAKO SK.Y 1943 M39
SIG 1928 M28
Tula 1898 M91
-Teleoceras
Tula 1935 M91/30
SAKO 1941 M39 Straight stock
Tula 1939 M91/30
Tikka 1942 M91
Tikka 1928 M27
Tula 1936 M91/30 Finnish rebuilt
Tikka 1944 M91/30
SAKO 1942 M39
Tula 1930 M91 Dragoon Finnish capture
SAKO SK.Y 1943 M39
SIG 1928 M28
Tula 1898 M91
-Teleoceras
Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
^^^thank you! She's quickly become one of my favorite Mosins.
Now for the most greedy question in the English language; what do you guys think she's worth? I have no plans on selling her, however I do log all my transactions with it's current market value, that way I can look at it in the future like an investment portfolio.
Now for the most greedy question in the English language; what do you guys think she's worth? I have no plans on selling her, however I do log all my transactions with it's current market value, that way I can look at it in the future like an investment portfolio.
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Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
Most things do have a price if they aren't family heirlooms, or stuff tied to events the owner experienced while using the item. Any of my M91's are for sale but at $50,000 each I am unlikely to have to part with them anytime soon, my rifle, my price, money talks and bullshit walks. Not homeless, hungry, or needing a fix so there is little incentive to get someone like me to sell. Prices on gunbroker can run $250 to over $600 depending on how much of a feeding frenzy the seller can drum up.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Antique Finn cap M91, what else can you tell me?
Chatellerault M91s have been bringing $800+, but that's certainly no guarantee. There may have been several people looking at the same time who bid one another up. Still, a Chatellerault will be on the high end of M91 prices.
The Deutsches Reich capture stamp on the stock doesn't hurt it's value, either.
The Deutsches Reich capture stamp on the stock doesn't hurt it's value, either.


