All collectible military bolt rifles are discussed here. From all countries around the world.
Preservation forum, please no altered military surplus rifles or discussions on altering in this forum. Please read the rules at the top of each forum.
M39 Shooter wrote:Please don`t shoot the messenger ! If i`m wrong i apologize but could he have re created the Radom 1938 rollmark across the receiver? I went back and forth to double check both sets of pictures , i think it could be 2 rifles, hence the A suffix in the s/n. God help me if i`m wrong.
Maybe this will help you.
Lets take a completely different part of the rifle from both sources and compare them. Lets take the butt stock on the left side.
click on the images below to make them larger. Now compare. Are they the same rifle?? (remember, these marks are like finger prints)
compare.png
compare2.png
I will say....there is something going on with the bolts.
Click to make larger.
compare3.png
I've been comparing these two rifles for an hour or so. There are things that say without a doubt they are the same rifle. But then I find a couple of things different. Could be lighting I guess, but I'm convinced the stocks are the same for sure. Bolts seem different??? (maybe). Some of the other photos on the second rifle are too "grainy" to tell for sure. Especially the ones with the German marks on them.
You make the call.
.
The Radom mark is a fake. Also was fake on his previous rifle. Here are some other comparisons that were done.
It's not the questions you ask, it's all in how you ask them. Speaking in a soft voice while pressing the barrels of a 12 bore tightly against his balls will generally get answers very quickly. There are some people in this hobby who would take a very dim view of getting shafted in a deal. The sort of people with time and money who would come looking and damn the consequence's, sooner or later this idiot will end up dealing with someone like that.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
SA1911a1 wrote:Am I reading this right that you think that the "Radom" stamp is faked? That would be a pretty elaborate hump.
Yes. That stamp is on fleabay too.
On Facebook? Check out the non-sporter preservationist group at: OOOPS. Deleted by Facebook because it's evil to even discuss collectible firearms on social media these days.
Our neighbors over at Gunboards have apparently put the Feds on the guy, and notified the buyer of his previous faked rifle that had not been paid for yet. It's not nice to fool with mother nature.....(or hard core collectors) The rifle would have fooled me completely, fortunately, I don't play in the big leagues so I would never made a pass at it.
May the Feds come to his birthday party and s*** all over his cake.
The guy changed the description now. Someone of consequence must have contacted the seller--I doubt a scammer would do this just because a few people called him out.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
This crook must have had dozens of responses to the listing calling it out as a fake. Add in his other sale and that buyer calling him out and not buying it.
He must realize the jig is up and is trying to cover his ass.
How stupid is he buying a rifle, adding fake marks and then selling it a few weeks later on the same site under the same name as he purchased it with.
This has been spread across the web through forums and social media so maybe he has see one of these threads and is now worried that he has invited the "man" into his life.
He's a crook but not a smart crook. A smart crook would have most likely not be found out this fast. I would love to see this idiot when the ATF knocks on his door. I hope he has a good size collection to go in the ATF truck. His kids are not going to college.
He's not experienced enough at his new trade yet. If he had been he would have rolled out his crap at a gunshow were he would be far less likely to be found out, and it would be highly unlikely what happened with this attempt at fraud would have happened. Just another anonymous seller at a show with hundreds of them. He should have realized that everyone on these boards and others spend far more time than is healthy pouring over the auctions, the big dollar auctions always get noticed and they spark posts on the boards. The pictures make the fraud harder to hide because unlike a gun show were you see the rifle in person as it is at the time on the net you can search out old pictures of the same rifle before the extras were added because internet gun junkies love to post pics. Who remembers every gun pic they ever saw while holding the potential new precious jammed up against some dealer table by hundreds of other possible buyers. The real humpers know it's safer to sell for cash to someone they will probably never see again. How did this guy expect to get away clean? It's a modern weapon, it would require an FFL transfer, real names and addresses, payment by credit card or postal MO. There would be recourse for the buyer should they discover the fake markings, credit card company's, postal inspectors, pissed off buyers showing up at the door with a chain saw. This is why I warn anyone to watch what they do at the shows, turn a very jaundiced eye on anything out of the ordinary that wears a steep price sticker. Listen to that little voice screaming in the back of your head, if it's too good to be true then it's fake asshole.
These things we collect are antiques, people who deal in these rifles we collect are antiques dealers even if they call themselves something else. The antiques trade is top heavy with humpers and always has been. Doesn't matter what the antique is, cars, jewelry, furniture, guns, art, whatever, when someone is making their living selling these things the temptation to improve something to increase profit will always be there. Some will give in to it. Nazi crap has been faked since the 1950's, some fakes are so old now that only the top experts can tell them from the real deal, and even then not all the time. This FNG with the restamped Mauser is just another Johnny come lately. Buyer beware, this time he was caught at it, how many more got clean away with it?
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
SA1911a1 wrote:I wonder if his description moves this issue from one of "caveat emptor" to interstate fraud. He describes the rifle as "rare" because of the stamp he added. It would be awesome if some State Attorney hit him with a summons.
Prosecutors don't hit people with summonses, they hit them with criminal indictments. Hopefully the Feds will take a bite out of that seller. Even if they don't end up prosecuting, a visit from no nonsense folks with badges and guns tends to straighten folks out. I've played that game a couple of times here.
I hope this guy doesn't have a wife and kids, would be a shame if they had to go thru the pain and embarrassment. Now for the individual who did this, as the saying goes You play Stupid games you win Stupid prizes.
redspoon wrote:I hope this guy doesn't have a wife and kids, would be a shame if they had to go thru the pain and embarrassment. Now for the individual who did this, as the saying goes You play Stupid games you win Stupid prizes.
Hopefully, if the ATF or NJSP has their way, he might just learn the the pain and embarrassment of the other definition of "humping" in our wonderful prison system.
I said I was an addict. I didn't say I had a problem.
redspoon wrote:I hope this guy doesn't have a wife and kids, would be a shame if they had to go thru the pain and embarrassment. Now for the individual who did this, as the saying goes You play Stupid games you win Stupid prizes.
Excellent Points JYD. You are especially correct about how a smart humper would sell only at shows. I know a lot of people say they won't buy a firearm unless they hold it in hand but I think at a show you can't get as good of a look as you can from pictures. It's usually hot and crowded and people are bumping into you while you are trying to examine a rifle. The lighting sucks. So naturally you end up rushing. With pictures you can take your time. I honestly think I'd rather have pictures before hand and a 3 day inspection period than anything else. Assuming the seller is honest.
Dolk and Capt 14 , Thanks i had no idea the level someone would go to to defraud the collectors community. You guys did the legwork on this one, i can see the subtle dents in the wood now. Yes he should be hung by his kishkas publicly as a warning . Maybe he received his training at a well known Mauser importer? Many years ago i remember someone faking the Krieghoff symbol on lugers. As long as there is a crooked buck to be made, we`ll run into guys like this.
Welcome to the world of antique collecting, everything beyond the ordinary is suspect and buyer beware. Yes, shows suck as a place to closely examine anything, yet another reason I hate buying guns at one. That and I find the percentage of bottom feeders I have to deal with takes a sudden jump the minute I walk in the door. I especially remember the one who tried to lure me with tales of how easy it is to build a full auto M-11 from a parts kit and set of receiver flats. Clinton era ATF plant for sure, they did that shit back then and probably still do, I forget how many times I told him to fuck off. The lighting does suck, you have to keep your hand tight over your wallet, fifteen assholes materialize three inches from you the moment you pick up anything just in case you found something good. Gotta love the ones who feel it's necessary to break what little concentration you have left with comments about the gun, the show, the weather while you are trying to examine something that might cost you a few hundred or a few grand. I will buy something generic like a basic 1943 M91/30 at a show if the price wasn't 20% more than even the local gun shop, but never anything past that. What I will do is find out if the seller is local with a shop I can visit, or arrange for them to stop by my place, it's a commercial business open to the public so no funny stuff. The big ticket stuff is not easy to sell so there is low risk somebody else will glom onto it before you get to see it later, and so what if they do, even the most special collectables in this hobby aren't one of, another will come along as good or better.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
