Swiss 1896/11 vs. K1911

[jaytex1969]

Which do you like better?

What are the primary differences?


Thanks.

Jay

[ksbanker]

Buy both! The K11, M1896/11, and M1911 can all shoot GP11 and modern 7.5x55 Swiss safely. Yes, the K31 is stronger because of the locking lug location but the others are just fine. I haven't shot my K31 since I bought a K11 and M1911 because I like both of them much better. The M1911 is an exceptional long range rifle, but the K11 is my favorite. I just like the feel of it. I'd suggest you try and get your hands on all of them and see which appeals to you the most.

The last three range trips I've taken the K11 because I enjoy it so much.

The primary differences are length and therefore weight. The K11 and M1911 (and M96/11) have the same action, but the M1911 (and M96/11) has a much longer barrel. The K11 has a protected front sight that the others lack. You can tell the difference between the M96/11 and the M1911 by the pistol grip. If it appears to be a separate piece grafted on than it is a 96/11.

[target]

Where the myth that the k11 and 96/11 are weak came from is beyond me. Seems kind of silly to develop a round the same year as a rifle that can't handle it... Gp11 (1911) K11 (1911) Yup. Many think the K11 is the most accurate out of the bunch with a lot of match shooters in Switzerland running the K11 over the K31.

Perfectly safe rifles to shoot. The only rifle that would have an issue running GP11 or Modern ammo is the 1889 rifles and even then the Swiss said it could run GP11 in the event of an emergency.

[target]

So you're saying ammunition that was developed for the rifle isnt safe for it?

Where are you getting THAT information. Gp11 was developed FOR the K11 rifles.

[millman]

The K11, M1896/11, and M1911 can all shoot GP11 and modern 7.5x55 Swiss safely. Yes, the K31 is stronger because of the locking lug location but the others are just fine.

Do more research before you wind up with a bolt in the middle of your forehead and you leave your wife a widow and your children without a father! M1896/11, M1911, and K11 riflles are not safe or rated to shoot GP11 ammo safely regardless of what someone told you or what you have heard.

If you researched Swiss firearms enough, you would know this already!

The vast majority of m96/11s were rebarrelled and are indeed safe to shoot GP11 through. They received the little grafted on scant pistol grip when they were upgraded. http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/index.html

[target]

So you're saying ammunition that was developed for the rifle isnt safe for it?

Where are you getting THAT information. Gp11 was developed FOR the K11 rifles.

No it was not developed for the earlier Swiss rifles. It was developed for the K31 rifles. Do your own research. I am not going to spoon feed it to you since I care enough for my own safety and the safety of anyone who fires my Swiss surplus rifles.

Kind of funny considering GP11 was adopted in 1911. You are horribly wrong here and should just stop. I kind of want to say you are joking but I can't help but think you are serious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5%C3%9755mm_Swiss

Here how about you do a bit a research before making a bigger fool of yourself.

[ksbanker]

What target said! GP11 is perfectly safe In the 96/11, M1911, K11 as previously stated.

[millman]

What target said! GP11 is perfectly safe In the 96/11, M1911, K11 as previously stated.

I really feel sorry for you. NOT! You are jumping on the bandwagon and dont have a frickin' clue!

Please show us your info. We are all here to learn.

[ksbanker]

What target said! GP11 is perfectly safe In the 96/11, M1911, K11 as previously stated.

I really feel sorry for you. NOT! You are jumping on the bandwagon and dont have a frickin' clue!

Look. You don't know anything about me. I'm not jumping on a bandwagon, I'm dealing with fact and do have a "frickin' clue." I'm not exactly sure what proof you would believe and I really don't care. I've shot it through both my K11 and M1911 many times. I would imagine most of the people on this board have done the same.

[target]

I've yet to see a single source of yours SpongeMonkey. What is apparent is that your ego is wrapped up in your answer. I think that if you believed the sky was red you would stick to the answer even if I walked you outside and pointed at the big blue expanse.

The date of the adoption of the cartridge should be proof enough but common sense isn't too common these days I suppose.

[ksbanker]

More power to you, your health and future. Read the TOU of this forum. I am done with you, have a nice day!

Guisan and Parashooter are respected across many forums. Perhaps you might believe them.

http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard ... P6QNzFtmM8

[Cj556]

Id go with a 1911 rifle myself. In my experience the 1911 family including the K11 and 96/11 seem to be smoother than the later K31

[millman]

They may be correct, but then again they may not be. Is your pocket book large enough to cover the expenses of a law suit in the event you recommend the ammo is good to go for anything other than a K31 and someone has a severe or fatal injury due to said use of the ammo and your are brought into court and are forced to pay for such loses? Can you cover said loses, can you deal with said results the rest of your life? Just saying, its all on you, all on you!

That goes for any milsurp rifle . I think we have determined that GP11 is safe in m96/11s on.

[Junk Yard Dog]

The few times I fired my 96/11 I used the GP11 ammo, it's all that was available. There were no issues at all with it. The Swiss build a brick shithouse of a rifle no matter if it's a Vetterli or whatever it is they use today, they claim the GP11 is good in all the rifles chambered for it, some shmuck at a gunshow telling me that I would remain highly dubious of the information, but the Swiss I believe. Everybody remain civil, I had a long work day and I have the foul mood to prove it.

[Junk Yard Dog]

All firearms are dangerous, all might suddenly fail at any moment just like anything else made by man. The best advice is to follow the manufacturers recommendations. Here's something to think about, most of us don't keep a car longer than ten years 'cause it might become prone to breakage, yet we routinely fire rifles older than our great grandparents without a second thought.

[Joekopec1]

Not sure how true it is but I heard the Swiss were instructed to use gp11 in 1889 rifles as an emergency, as the action is strong enough for minimal firing useing the round. (Of course no one in their right mind would say do this recreationally) just thought that was interesting if true.

[Darryl]

I think I've read enough here. If you guys don't agree, then fine, move on.

If you have "evidence" or references to support your claims, then great.....post them. If you have references, it is important to post them so others may have the knowledge and benefit. That is the purpose of these forums.

I'd rather this conversation continue with references that support your point. When it does, we all learn.

PS: only persons enforcing "the rules" of these forums is the Administrators.

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[bunkysdad]

If GP11 is not correct ammo for rifles prior to the K31, which by the way is the only Swiss rifle I own, then there is no ammo available for a multitude of 1911 rifles and carbines, 1889/11 rifles that have been sold over the past decade or two, except for handloading. I don't know the exact percentage of owners or Swiss enthusiasts that believe that GP11 surplus ammo is in fact safe for all but the original 1889, but it must exceed 90%, so we should be able to find at least one report of a shooter with a bolt going through his face. Heck, I can't even find a single case of a Mosin bolt going through someone's head due to EXCESS HEADSPACE. Faulty weapons, or faulty handloaded ammo is another story.

[bunkysdad]

I want to own one of each example as I can afford to. The K11 long rifle and carbine interest me greatly. I find the improvements to the K31 over the 1911 carbine to be interesting. By shortening and strengthening the K31 bolt, they were able to lengthen the K31 barrel and keep the same overall measurements and weights of both rifles. Supposedly increasing accuracy in the K31 due to the longer barrel. I have read plenty of owners stating their 1911 carbine is just as accurate? I personally don't have the experience to back that up yet.

[Darryl]

Well, this is way out of my field. I only own one Swiss rifle .... a K31.




And honestly, I only bought it because of one reason.....




I've only put 4 rounds through it and they were reloads I made. I have a ton of GP11 in the safe, but I've never fired it in the rifle.

Dolk



PS: Your job is to have fun while visiting. No need to get agitated. No need to worry about getting tossed off the forums. It doesn't work that way.

We do enforce the rules all the time. The fact that you don't know about it shows we do it in private and try to help people understand why we have that rule. People make mistakes and sometime never though about it that way. No one gets tossed with out having discussed the problem with them and they become disrespectful to one of the Admins. or refuse to go by the rules. It just don't happen like that. So relax.


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