m38 still not working right. VERY DEPRESSED. HELP!!!

[z31jaime]

Apparently I made this thread a few. min ago but something happened with my WIFI and its not showing so I'll repost it again in hopes that it dosen't show up twice.


ok so full numbers matching 42 issy m38 in m44 stock....


Issue is, it won't close the bolt with a round in it. gunsmith #1 says "its your surplus yellow tip ammo, the rims are out of spec and the extractor wont close over them, buy some of this new wolf stuff and you'll be fine, get home and it won't close on the wolf stuff. to I take it to gunsmith #2 who says the extractor is "to tight, and he polished the 2 sides of the bolt where the extractor rests and put in a new extractor I picked up." guy tells me its fixed and when I pick up puts 2 of my surplus rounds in and it cycles with them! so I'm super excited. get home try the newer Wolf ammo I got before... wont close, try more surplus ammo, wont close, in fact the only 2 round it will close on are the ones the gunsmith showed me....call him back and wouldn't you know it, once I leave the store with it its my problem.... I can bring it back for more money because I "must have messed something up after he fixed it."

so #1 why only 2 rounds work out of 80... they don't look like he did anything to them, and I remember a few of my surplus rounds would work before even before all the work was done,

#2 after being taken by the 2 "most recomended " gun smiths in Orlando, I really don't wanna keep dumping money into this, I've already spent what a NEW Mosin Nagant would have cost me.... just trying to fix it, and that not counting what I spent to Buy it, I'm about 3 91/30's in the hole.

#3 One thing I noticed was that, the extractor isn't sitting flush on the back of the bolt head, I've read that it should, I've tried to make it go in more but no dice. also the "bottom lip" of the extractor head (part that clips over the rim) sits real tight on the rims, if I just put the round on the bolt face by hand... should it be tight?


#4 after dumping well more than this Rifle is worth between buying it and trying to fix it I just want to get rid of it now... WOULD there even be any intrest in this Rifle with its current issue?

[MN Fan]

Do you have another Mosin around?

[desdem12]

Yes there would be. Have you tried another bolt in it from another gun?

[millman]

Still sounds like an extractor problem to me. Either the angle is too flat, or there is not enough clearance between the underside of the extractor and the bolt face. There could also possibly be a problem with the slot in the bolt head.

[z31jaime]

I don't have another Mosin, this is my first one, also In the last few Min I've been checking my other packs of surplus ammo and found another 2 rounds that it will close on, so now I'm up to 4 that will work, 1 more and I've got a full clip... LOL

I've tried contacting some Mosin nagant owneres on some of my local gun forums, but they dont seem to receptive of a total stranger asking to use there bolt for 5 min....

[desdem12]

Thats too bad i would loan one in a heartbeat to see if it would close.

[bunkysdad]

If it were me, I would remove the extractor from the bolt head and reassemble the bolt with out and extractor. Then try to close the bolt on a round and if it doesn't then you have a headspace problem. You need to buy a headspace gauge from Okie so you can check it yourself. If you dont want to fool with it any more then send me a pm and you might want to sell it to me, as I am looking for a m38.
All the best, Russell

[MN Fan]

Your welcome to try one of mine, but I wouldn't fire it unless you have headspace gauges. Maybe if you would mail me yours and I mail you mine, we could try them out in different rifles. I'd want mine back of course

[z31jaime]

Still sounds like an extractor problem to me. Either the angle is too flat, or there is not enough clearance between the underside of the extractor and the bolt face. There could also possibly be a problem with the slot in the bolt head.

This is what i thought, my Orignal extractor was almost flat, so to me it made sence to change it, I ordered some NOS ones from finland the angle is MUCH better, but it still wont close on most of them, I'm thinking its what your saying the space between the bolt face and the extractor... or the slot in the bolt head, as thats what the 2nd gunsmith said was wrong with it and claimed to fix.

[desdem12]

Have we seen pictures of the extractor and bolt yet? (if so sorry have old man disease).

[mogunner]

Well, obviously forget the gunsmiths... the ones you encountered obviously are just in the business to make money and not take care of their customers. Now here's what I'd do..first off I'm assuming that you only own one Mosin (shame shame... just kidding! ) otherwise you could lay one bolt head next to the other to look for differences.

Gunsmith #1 is an idiot, surplus ammo "out of spec"??? I mean c'mon, this was made for military. I could maybe see a couple rounds out of a thousand that had some variance but just in this forum alone we probably shoot up a few pallets of surplus a year I'd bet.

Gunsmith #2 didn't do a thorough check, probably got the two to work and said "good enough" and went on to the next job. Still, he should stand behind his work, and probably said you "did something to it" because he couldn't figure it out himself.

Had someone with this same problem not too long ago, the recess in the bolt head was actually bent a tad bit out of round, their gunsmith did a bit of work on it and fixed it, I'd start there. Best way would be take a pair of calipers and check it, but you could clip a round in there with the bolt out of the rifle and just look carefully at it and see if it's out of round.

Another way to probably take care of it is pick up another bolt head and swap it out. Be warned though that the headspace would need to be checked after that, but there's a forum sponsor up on the banner that would be happy to sell you the ones you need!

And it's never really good to pass on one with a problem unless the buyer is a collector that's well versed in Mosin's and willing to take on finding out the problem.

[desdem12]

You can order another bolt to see if it will work but of course that means sinking more doh into it. Or you could get a different bolt head and try it.

[z31jaime]

Have we seen pictures of the extractor and bolt yet? (if so sorry have old man disease).

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2020

orignal post about the issue. I don't have an HD cam, so thats the best i could do.

[bunkysdad]

By the way gunsmith#2 sounds like a sorry crooked SOB of a gunsmith, and the reason the 2 cartridges you left with him fit is likely because he crushed the head down by forcing the bolt closed

[z31jaime]

Sounds about right, for Gunsmith #2,


I guess thats the problem with bing in the middle of a BIG city, with no real "hunting" areas for Hours away. If its not a handgun they are lost. Hell the closest range I can shoot this at is 2.5hours away. i took it into 1 gunsmith who said.... "shouldn't this be about a foot longer? did you saw off the barrel?" I promptly walked right back out....



If anyone thinks they can help me fix the issue I'd be more than happy to ship the bolt to where ever,

[MN Fan]

I read this from your other thread:

Thats exactly what I used, shotgun brushes. its Super clean now... so I have no idea what it could be, I was thinking that a buddy of mine has one of the regular MNs, would the bolt from his work on mine? maybe i could swap them for a moment to rule out the extractor right?

Did you try the other bolt? By re-reading the thread, it almost sounds like you have a burr in the chamber. The extractor may have got bent when a case was stuck on this burr. Also, you mention some shells work, some don't. It sounds like the problem is very minor. Are you still seeing scratches on the casings when you cycle them? Any photos of the scratches?

[desdem12]

What is your local of you don't mind me asking?

[z31jaime]

IM in Orlando, FL. Home of Micky Mouse and crappy Gun Smiths... LOL.

according to both gunsmiths the issue is extractor related, not chamber, but we all see where that has gotten me.

How much space should be between the bolt head and the extractor? like I said the rounds if I put them in by hand fit very tight. like if you don't clip it under the extractor first then place it on the head its not going to go in, makes me wonder if its just not open enough and the tounds are kinda going sideways and not wanting to clip?....but that again brings me to... why the 4 rounds I found work fine, and not the others?


And I don't have any other bolts to try, I guess I wasn't as good a buddy as I thought with the other guy....


All I did was ask him If I could play with his Bolt to see if the head was different than mine, and maybe use his to chamber a round in my rifle. he must have taken that wrong, cause he hasn't been answering my phone calls........

[SA1911a1]

Did I miss something? First Mosin....Bolt not closing......Gunked up chamber?

[desdem12]

I am just sure if you had another one there it would be solved in a second, But alas ..The best i can do is take some pics of one of my bolts.