Really? 1951 Tula sold for $465 on GB

[Drago]

Okay class, here's a prime example of too much money, not enough brains/knowledge. I'll give the buyer the benefit of doubt and say he was shill bidding for the seller. No other explanation for this purchase. 65 pics does not, this price, make...

Can someone other than the recognized SKS guru's tell the class why this SKS sold at a price close to $200 too much? Let's see if people have been paying attention. This can be a game of sorts and a good learning experience.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =271516173

[Junk Yard Dog]

Look at some of the prices that people are paying for just about anything on GB, $1100 SVt40's, $450 regular Finn M91's ? This latest is no surprise to me.

[MN Fan]

Well Teach, I don't see it. I'll quietly move to the back of the class. I did look over each photo closely several times and my untrained eye doesn't get it.

I'm looking forward to the answer...

[Junk Yard Dog]

I know how to shoot. strip down and clean an SKS, I know what country's they were made in, and there my specialized knowledge on the subject ends

[MN Fan]

Now if you tell me that blip to the left of the serial number is a /1\, I am going to buy some magnified reading glasses!

[Drago]

Now if you tell me that blip to the left of the serial number is a /1\, I am going to buy some magnified reading glasses!

Actually, I think that mark is just a big scar, like something hit the rifle or the rifle fell over into something. If it is an actual mark, then it's just a poorly placed inspection stamping. This isn't a DDR, if that's what you were thinking.

I think this is a fun exercise, and I think these things are excellent ways to learn. I want to wait a little longer to see if some others want to join in, with what they might think. Apparently, I'm a bit bored today.

JYD, I know what you are saying, but a lot of those prices are for truly collectible rifles. Not all, of course, but this SKS is NOT collectible, yet it got a VERY collectible price. Some may disagree with my estimate of a $200 premium, but I'm not too far off. This rifle should never have gotten more than about $300-350, even with a bit of a hike in current SKS prices. Too be honest, the only true hike in SKS prices is being realized in the collector rifles, not the shooters, but some people actually think they are getting a collector rifle when they truly are not.

[Rongo]

For what stuff is selling for these days nothing surprises me.

[Drago]

Just as a fun comparison, look at this reasonably priced Russian SKS.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =270190922

Now, which rifle deserves the selling cost?

[pacanis]

What a timely thread.
I was making the circuit today and saw a '51 Tula laminate at a shop for $429 and was wondering if that was typical.
Watching this thread...

[MN Fan]

I paid $450 for mine Pac. Go get it

[MN Fan]

OK Drago, I'll admit, this is sort of fun lol. And I am sure I'll learn something out of this.

I'll take a shot...

The first one is obviously a refurb, non-matching, BBQ paint and dull bayonet and of course an obvious refurb mark. I cannot see anything that would make it appear to be of significant value.

The second one would have got my attention. Original blueing, white bolt and clear marks. I don't see an ovious refurb stamp, but the black bayonet gives it away. If it wouldn't be for shipping and transfer fees, I would have bid just a bit more for this one.

I know I am probably missing the boat here, but, that's my take

[WeldonHunter]

Okay class, here's a prime example of too much money, not enough brains/knowledge. I'll give the buyer the benefit of doubt and say he was shill bidding for the seller. No other explanation for this purchase. 65 pics does not, this price, make...

Can someone other than the recognized SKS guru's tell the class why this SKS sold at a price close to $200 too much? Let's see if people have been paying attention. This can be a game of sorts and a good learning experience.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =271516173

It's a 51 that's been refurbed in a 54 stock and has some forced numbers and looks like it's either been "fixed" (had parts replaced) or it's a made up rifle to a degree.

[Drago]

MN & Weldon, you guys did pretty good.

MN, you spotted the BBQ paint. In the case of this particular rifle, the amount of BBQ paint is what we call a "heavy BBQ". In other words, pretty much every metal part has been painted. On most heavy BBQ'd rifles, the rear sight is grey anodized/parkerized (whatever it actually is), as well. Some BBQ painted rifles will still have a bolt "in the white" (silver). The heavy BBQ'd rifles are usually the most extensively re-arsenalled SKS's and other than a Russian being a collector for Russians' sake, they are the least valuable.

Weldon, you mentioned the refurb'd 1954 stock. I also noticed on this rifle, that it has been heavily or overly shellac'd with minor sanding, which accounts for the goosepimpling effect. I personally hate this look and shy away from this. Some folks might not be as bothered by it, but it's certainly not a "pretty" shellac job. That equals to less value, in my book. You also mentioned the force matching. The gas tube, piston and bolt e-pen'd parts are failry common even on an original, but the deal breaker for me was the totally non-matching magazine. In fact, this magazine is not even Russian. I'd rather have a non-numbered magazine on a rifle before I had a non-numbers matching one, but to find a non-numbed magazine, you'll spend $30-50, if you can even find one. It is also missing a sling! So, breaking down the cost of this rifle: $465, plus shipping of (est) $20 USPS, plus $25 FFL transfer, plus $40 for a non-numbered magazine, plus a sling $20 = $570. Hmmm, now we are in the world of a sweet "As issued" original, unmolested Russian SKS. I hope the buyer is happy with his purchase. There were actually 91 pics, so one can't say they weren't warned. One saving grace is that this rifle doesn't appear to have been fired very much and will probably make a great shooter. Shooter Russian SKS's can be easily had for $325-350.

That's my $.10 cuz my $.02 is free! ;)

[MN Fan]

Thanks Drago, like I said, it was fun

As long as Mike and I team up when we go shopping, we got it made

What do you think the story is on the 2nd one? It looks to be a light refurbish but the only obvious clue is the bayonet (in the photos anyway). It looks like it went for a pretty fair price considering recent sales reports.

[Drago]

What a timely thread.
I was making the circuit today and saw a '51 Tula laminate at a shop for $429 and was wondering if that was typical.
Watching this thread...

Well, I can tell you without looking, that the '52 Tula Laminate is a refurb. For me to spend $429 on it, it would first have to have an amazing stock color. I like the brilliant, almost "neon" amber lammies and the nicely finished dark garnet ones. A lot of them have an average reddish brown, dull finish. I stay away from those. Also, I would want to see the receiver and bolt in the blue and silver, not BBQ painted like my first example above. It would need to have a nice silver or black bayonet and cleaning rod. I never worry about a sling too much, but if it has it, then that is a bonus. The rifle would need to be completely numbers matching with hard stampings, not electro-penned bolt, for example. It is okay if the gas tube, piston and underneath of the rear sight ladder are e-penned. I'm picky, but for $429, I think one ought to be.

[WeldonHunter]

MN & Weldon, you guys did pretty good.

MN, you spotted the BBQ paint. In the case of this particular rifle, the amount of BBQ paint is what we call a "heavy BBQ". In other words, pretty much every metal part has been painted. On most heavy BBQ'd rifles, the rear sight is grey anodized/parkerized (whatever it actually is), as well. Some BBQ painted rifles will still have a bolt "in the white" (silver). The heavy BBQ'd rifles are usually the most extensively re-arsenalled SKS's and other than a Russian being a collector for Russians' sake, they are the least valuable.

Weldon, you mentioned the refurb'd 1954 stock. I also noticed on this rifle, that it has been heavily or overly shellac'd with minor sanding, which accounts for the goosepimpling effect. I personally hate this look and shy away from this. Some folks might not be as bothered by it, but it's certainly not a "pretty" shellac job. That equals to less value, in my book. You also mentioned the force matching. The gas tube, piston and bolt e-pen'd parts are failry common even on an original, but the deal breaker for me was the totally non-matching magazine. In fact, this magazine is not even Russian. I'd rather have a non-numbered magazine on a rifle before I had a non-numbers matching one, but to find a non-numbed magazine, you'll spend $30-50, if you can even find one. It is also missing a sling! So, breaking down the cost of this rifle: $465, plus shipping of (est) $20 USPS, plus $25 FFL transfer, plus $40 for a non-numbered magazine, plus a sling $20 = $570. Hmmm, now we are in the world of a sweet "As issued" original, unmolested Russian SKS. I hope the buyer is happy with his purchase. There were actually 91 pics, so one can't say they weren't warned. One saving grace is that this rifle doesn't appear to have been fired very much and will probably make a great shooter. Shooter Russian SKS's can be easily had for $325-350.

That's my $.10 cuz my $.02 is free! ;)

I noticed the BBQ but really didn't mention it as it's kind of a given to me. I did notice the different color paint. The gas tube is darker. That's why I said maybe replaced parts. It's just a mix of stuff in my opinion. Numbers all over the place as in different.

[WeldonHunter]

Thanks Drago, like I said, it was fun

As long as Mike and I team up when we go shopping, we got it made

What do you think the story is on the 2nd one? It looks to be a light refurbish but the only obvious clue is the bayonet (in the photos anyway). It looks like it went for a pretty fair price considering recent sales reports.

We're learning Cliff. I don't spend nearly as much time here as I should.

[Drago]

Thanks Drago, like I said, it was fun

As long as Mike and I team up when we go shopping, we got it made

What do you think the story is on the 2nd one? It looks to be a light refurbish but the only obvious clue is the bayonet (in the photos anyway). It looks like it went for a pretty fair price considering recent sales reports.

Well, there is the question, isn't it? There are some of us that believe that a black bayo is not necessarily an automatic refurb. I believe that some very early Russians may have been factory fitted with black bayo's for some reason. Could be special units or parade examples, I'm not sure, but I also believe that the black bayo's were the first blade bayos made and the silver ones came later. We know that Russian spike bayos were black so it seems more logical that they switched to the blade style, but for a short time or short run, did the blades in black, as well. When or why they switched to silver, I don't know. Old Outlaw found the sister to rifle #2 a few months back. His is also a 1951, as-issued (as far as we can tell) with a black bayo. His bayo peens/stakes are hard to tell if they've been tampered with, so to me that means they probably haven't been. So the debate or question needs to be asked, is it possible to have an original as-issued Russian with a black bayonet? Black bayo's are my favorite and I wish they were more common. At $430, this is a very good price on an early rifle.

(edited - OO told me his bayo had been replaced) :( Still, the question of some Russians having original black bayo's is one that we may never have an answer to.

[MN Fan]

Interesting. And you make a good point. As with any military rifle, there never seems to be a positive answer, but mostly more questions. I didn't see anything else in the photos that would say it was a refurb. If there is a chance that the bayonet was arsenal installed...well, this would be one pretty cool rifle. Even as a refurb, it was a fair price. But, if it has an arsenal installed black bayonet then it would be a very nice piece to own and well worth more money

[Drago]

I hope OO will post his 1951 in this thread, so we'll have two examples to look over in one spot. That is, until the Gunbroker auction fades or the seller pulls his pics.

My intention on doing this was to help educate and have fun, but not at a buyer/sellers expense. I feel like this forum is a good group of select firearms collectors and won't be against each other helping each other out. I wouldn't post this on some other forums, because...well, a number of reasons, I guess. It seemed appropriate here. If you guys like this kindof comparison value/price thingy (I think they are fun and we all learn something), I'll do one a week or so, or when I spot or see something that "just ain't right".

Just as some of you are still learing the SKS, I am struggling to learn the Mosin. I find the Mosin learning curve much greater than the SKS. You Mosin guru's rock!